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What Differentiates a Spruiker from a Genuine Advisor/Coach/Guide/Mentor

Discussion in 'General Property Chat' started by BKRinvesting, 27th May, 2016.

  1. BKRinvesting

    BKRinvesting Well-Known Member

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    Just a questions I've been pondering.
    What, in your opinion, differentiates a Spruiker from a mentor (assuming the mentor/guide is charging for the service).

    A few obvious ones are:
    - Looking to flog OTP/ Developer stock for kick backs,
    - Looking to take advantage (ie profit) over looking to genuinely help.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Xenia

    Xenia Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    Mentors do not ever tell you what to do, they only guide you according to the level you are at and what you are capable of achieving.
     
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  3. pinkboy

    pinkboy Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    'Genuine' and 'paid' are mutually exclusive.

    pinkboy
     
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  4. Leo2413

    Leo2413 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Hmm....what about some of the genuine investors on here who offer various sorts of guidance/works (paid of course) to help a newbie or someone needing some help with something new. Would they be 'spruikers' too?
     
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  5. BKRinvesting

    BKRinvesting Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I agree with that.

    Why would helping or guiding someone to invest/manage their money be any different to providing any other expert service? (E.g accountants, lawyers - obviously these are well regulated industries, but I do remember hearing rumblings of movements to regulate the advisory services industry also)
    Is the point of difference about whether or not the advisor recommends an actually product (e.g "but from this complex of apartments)?
     
  6. Xenia

    Xenia Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    In reality - no

    In someone's mind - yes
     
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  7. BKRinvesting

    BKRinvesting Well-Known Member

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    Why?

    This is what I'm trying to get to th root of,
    What would be the key differentiating factors? qualifications, X years experience, a regulated industry?
    After all, surely we can't expect a free lunch?
     
  8. pinkboy

    pinkboy Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Perhaps start from basic dictionary meanings of the words from the thread title.

    How can a mentor be genuine when they are being paid for the service? Defeats the purpose of the definitions....oxymoron even.

    pinkboy
     
  9. BKRinvesting

    BKRinvesting Well-Known Member

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    Mentor - "an experienced and trusted advisor",
    However I acknowledge your point, perhaps "Advisor" or "Coach" is a better word to convey the type of service, given a mentor is typically a more personal relationship. I'll update the title accordingly.
     
  10. Xenia

    Xenia Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    BK
    My only input in this is worry more about what you are getting out of it than how you want to label a person.

    Is this business relationship working for you? Are you growing as a result. A good mentor will push you beyond what you think is capable.

    If you are just offered easy products and not growing - move on.

    If you have no idea - move on.

    If you think someone is a spruker and feel the need to use that label, move on.

    Choose your people well, you become who you hang around with.

    I have business mentors, they keep me accountable to projections and business plans. I would not have been here if I did not have help. I make way more money than what I pay them.

    I have also outgrown a lot of mentors along the way. It's a good feeling when you know that you have grown so much that you can now see eye to eye with your mentors.

    Can you learn martial arts alone? Sure
    Is it quicker with a black belt master who can see your mistakes? Off course

    Like in martial arts, businesses can develop bad habits if not corrected early that will wipe them out under pressure.

    You can only reach the stars if you are standing on the shoulders of giants.
     
  11. spludgey

    spludgey Well-Known Member

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    Mentors, in my opinion, only ever benefit from you using them by charging a reasonable hourly fee. But ideally, a mentor shouldn't cost you anything. I was lucky enough to have a free mentor and I still talk to her every now and then, even though conversations have changed slightly as I have more properties than she does.
    I think that quite a lot of people on here would be willing to show a person that's new the ropes, as long as they were keen and likely to actually follow through. I know I only just offered to meet up with a new member recently and talk about his goals and what I've done. He seemed keen in the beginning but hasn't tried to set a time, so perhaps he's changed his mind (or read a few of my posts and realised I don't know what the hell I'm talking about :D). I won't pursue it as I think the hunger for learning has to come from the student, but I just wanted to show as an example that mentors can often be had for free.
     
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  12. DaveM

    DaveM Adelaide Buyers Agent & KFC Strategist Business Member

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    A mentor (paid or unpaid) does it because they want to help you.

    A spruiker does it because they want to help themselves, usually to your bank balance.
     
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  13. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Finance broker and strategist Business Member

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    A mentor provides guidance and advice in an activity you're presuing, but they're not selling you anything (except their knowledge and expertise).

    A spruiker is selling you something. They may provide some level of mentoring as part of their sales process to influence you to buy what they're selling.
     
  14. DiligentPM

    DiligentPM Well-Known Member Business Member

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    It is simple - a true mentoring relationship is about drawing upon the experiences of a more experienced investor who does not place her/himself in a conflict of interest to offer impartial advice and conversations...an accountable mentor does not accept inducements from third parties (kick backs) nor place him/herself in a position of bias...it is a mutually reciprocal relationship to learn from one another and learn from one's experiences - the positive experiences and importantly one's mistakes
     
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  15. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo renovating Premium Member

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    The problem with paying is that everyone expects a result, otherwise it could be perceived that there hasn't been value for money. An unpaid mentor is able to let go of the outcome and then so too can the mentee. The transaction is an exchange of knowledge, interest and encouragement. It works better that way.
    Granted, not everyone has the time, motivation or energy for it. On the other hand, a lot do.
     
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  16. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I always wondered what a life coach is?
     
  17. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo renovating Premium Member

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    Someone who charges money to tell you how to live your life based on new age mumbo jumbo, I assume.
     
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  18. spludgey

    spludgey Well-Known Member

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    Most males on here would have a life coach, whether they wanted one or not! ;)
     
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  19. DaveM

    DaveM Adelaide Buyers Agent & KFC Strategist Business Member

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    Its where you outsource common sense for $250 an hour
     
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  20. big max

    big max Well-Known Member

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    I nearly got sucked in by a "mentor" on my first ever purchase. He offered to help me look at properties I was interested in but towards the end steered me towards a new development that he told me was "in a diamond cross" location or some kind of bs phrase. I didn't fall for it though and realised later he was getting 5k for every buyer he could introduce. (I ended up buying the place I was initially interested in - a great decision).

    So in my mind the worst kind of "mentor" is someone like this who has an undisclosed interest - basically I view that as a scammer.

    The best kind of mentor is someone who has genuine experience and interest in investing and who provides advice without any fee, simply for the passion they have on their field. These people exist in sports, hobbies, arts, and also in investing. On the stock side I have some really good hedge fund and private wealth management mates whom I love speaking with about investing. None would dare ask me to invest with or through them - it's all purely mutually beneficial academic discussions we have.