Townhouse development

Discussion in 'Renovation & Home Improvement' started by Janice S, 28th Jun, 2021.

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  1. Janice S

    Janice S Member

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    This is my first post here so apologies if it is really stupid. My family owns 2 properties. The one in between is going up for sale. We're thinking of buying it and developing a few townhouses. It is zoned R3 medium density residential. I have no experience at this. The logical thing is sell it all for a profit to a developer who knows what they are doing. Surely that is a good plan.

    Alternately we could get someone to build some townhouses. It is a dream to build something exactly how you want it but I fear my lack of experience will turn this into a nightmare. Any tips?

    A
     
  2. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    We've just finished our first (and probably last) development.

    We had two blocks together, got ourselves a DA to build four townhouses (had to keep the two old houses).

    I'm the driving force but hubby was happy to come along for the journey. I felt very much if this failed, it would be my fault and would have preferred more input from him, but was thankful he put his faith in me.

    We got the DA and I asked many, many silly questions on this forum, because I didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't even know what questions I needed to ask to learn what I needed to know.

    Ultimately, we found a project manager from the forum, by chance really, and he made all the difference. Obviously that came with a cost, but without him and his people, we would really have been babes in the woods. As soon as we met him, we trusted him. You know when you get that gut feeling?

    He was very honest in letting us know the level of spec we'd chosen would be unlikely to give us a profit. But we were doing this development as a long term hold, as income for our retirement. So we did choose things that a developer would not have chosen, eg. timber engineered flooring thick enough to drum sand after tenants might scratch it, so we could have "like new" townhouses if we eventually sell them. We chose bathroom stone finishes to lift it into a higher level and hopefully attain higher rent than lower level of spec.

    He suggested we bring in a designer, who lifted the spec without it costing us more. Eg. kitchen cabinetmaker made the vanities for 12 bathrooms, and it cost no more than buying off the shelf from a bathroom store. Plus they fitted our rooms perfectly and didn't look like every other bathroom where you can pick which store the vanities came from.

    We still had to make choices of course, and cut down some specs but he took out all the stress and just managed everything so well. We couldn't have done it without him.

    So I'd say if you can get on board someone you trust to take you through the process, you could come out the other end with something to sell or hold, without losing money.

    I guess it comes down to whether you can afford to buy the house in the middle. If you can, then can you also afford to do the build? One avenue we looked at was going JV with a builder, but ultimately we did it on our own.

    And understand everything is going to be more than you expect to cost. There are so many hands out (BCC, engineers, civil works, sound engineers, you name it) all needing to do their thing, over and above what was a well priced build contract.
     
    Last edited: 29th Jun, 2021
  3. Janice S

    Janice S Member

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    Thanks very much. That was very helpful. I know a builder. Maybe he could do it or recommend someone.
     
  4. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I forgot to say that because we had to hold onto the old houses, we had costs to lift and slide them to create our "free" block (which was a looooong way from being free). That meant bringing them up to code and renovating them, new connections, new power, sewer, everything. That was cost that isn't even seen, and which we wouldn't benefit from in any way.

    That was one reason why it was so hard for us to have made any profit, had we been looking to sell these.

    If we could have removed the houses, that would have been very different. It did mean we had two lots of rent flowing while the build happened, so there were upsides, but the larger block with no houses would have allowed us more townhouses.

    Would you be looking at having to keep the houses?
     
  5. Janice S

    Janice S Member

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    I assumed demolishing the three houses. Makes more room. Why did you move the old houses? Heritage?
     
  6. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    That's right. Not "heritage" but "demolition control precinct".
     
  7. Janice S

    Janice S Member

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    I've never heard of such a thing. Does that apply to NSW? I need to do some research!
     
  8. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Your local council should be able to give a quick answer, or a town planner.
     
  9. Janice S

    Janice S Member

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    Ok thanks
     
  10. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    You need to ascertain the development value of your site. You won't know what it's worth until you have done some kind of site feasibility to see exactly what can be built and then what the end value might be when compared to the costs. Then you can possibly put a price on it when pitching to developers if you want to sell it.

    Selling with a DA is also an option. Or lastly building yourself. That's the highest risk option but possibly also the best returns. With no experience, it's definitely high risk.

    First thing, ascertain what exactly can be built . If your very serious about it, personally I'd engage a good town planner to do this part of the site feasibility for you to show you all the options of what could be built, all the site challenges etc.
     
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  11. Janice S

    Janice S Member

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    Thank you. I will start talking to people.
     
  12. Stoffo

    Stoffo Well-Known Member

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    Definitely buy if you get the chance.

    Even if you/your family don't do anything in the short to medium term the LOT (3 blocks) will be worth more together than individually.

    Particularly if you are near shops/transport as there may be a chance of rezoning in coming years.

    Plenty of development going on out your side of town
     
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  13. Janice S

    Janice S Member

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    Thanks
     
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  14. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    Talk to a town planner. Other people will be a waste of time.
     
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  15. Stoffo

    Stoffo Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    But do so with a pocker face...
    Only reference your suburb and similar street area.
    I'm always reluctant to disclose too many details too early to anyone, because people in the game may see potential you haven't yet, they may also have better resources and deeper pockets (yes, I'm paranoid)
     
  16. Fabs

    Fabs Active Member

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    Most lots in R3 zones contain only one house and are generally not large enough on their own to allow a townhouse or villa development, therefore 2 together and specially 3 together are worth much more to developers than their individual value multiplied by 3.

    I have in the past designed multi-dwelling developments for clients who sold them for a good profit immediately after obtaining the DA.

    If the house in the middle is in good condition (or easy to renovate) you could put a tenant to live there and help you pay the mortgage while you prepare the design and wait for the approval. A process like this may take many months or even more than one year so it is good to be prepared.
     
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  17. Piston_Broke

    Piston_Broke Well-Known Member

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    Agree...unless you can talk to somone who has already built the same and even better in that area.
     
  18. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    But you can have two properties in a suburb. Even right next to each other, and the TP issues affecting one property could be very different to the property next door. That's why I always engage town planners who are the experts in this area.
     
  19. Janice S

    Janice S Member

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    I have spoken to 2 real estate agents and they don't think it is feasible. It is a quiet street with a 50% floor ratio. The houses are worth about $1.7 mill each. We may be able to build 6 townhouses. The cost of buying the house, knocking down 3 then building the townhouses wouldn't leave much room for profit.
     
  20. Fabs

    Fabs Active Member

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    R3 is supposed to be medium density but FSR 0.5:1 is in practice the lowest density level. Not a good combination.