Steve Navratil aka Steve Navra

Discussion in 'Property Experts' started by See Change, 1st Jun, 2018.

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  1. DaveM

    DaveM Well-Known Member

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    Do you read the itunes agreement before accepting?
     
    DaveM, 28th Jul, 2018
    #21
  2. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    Maybe one in 50?
     
    Peter_Tersteeg, 28th Jul, 2018
    #22
  3. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    I must admit I have never read any online type contracts - except for a uni course. I also purchased many properties before becoming a lawyer and never read one contract.
     
    Terry_w, 28th Jul, 2018
    #23
  4. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    For loan contracts I think I have only come across one or 2 of my loan clients that have appeared to read them.
     
    Terry_w, 28th Jul, 2018
    #24
  5. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    It's true that many don't. Personally, I read every word of every contract I sign and so does my business partner. I have studied contract law at uni including masters, which helps. I have an excellent solicitor who specialises in business and contract law when I need advice on contracts.

    In any case, I just wanted you to know that there are people who take contracts seriously and read them in full before signing.
     
    Perthguy, 29th Jul, 2018
    #25
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  6. val

    val Well-Known Member

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    I didn't invest in this tree plantation scheme but I did invest in his fund which traded the stock market. Luckily I redeemed my units before it crashed! For those who remember, Steve would hold these seminars in capital cities which cost about $20 to cover the venue hire. He had this great presentation of an algorithm he developed which bought shares when they were low and sold them when they were high. Topcropper, Bill and others would debate him on the topic but there was a lot of people from SS investing and lost the lot! This was in the days when Mark L. and Katrina N. worked for him.
     
    val, 29th Jul, 2018
    #26
  7. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    For loan contracts with large banks, most people tend to be fatalistic about it - you know it's not a good contract - you know there is nothing in your favour in the contract - but you also know that if you want to borrow the money, you're going to have to sign it and just go with it.

    I'm sure if you're borrowing amounts which have a couple of extra zeros on the end of what residential property investors typically borrow, there is room to negotiate over the contract - but the most we small fry could do is to walk away and try another lender whose contract is likely to be largely the same and just as bad.

    Debt is a valuable tool in an investors armoury - but it comes with a price and with risks which need to be understood and managed.
     
    Simon Hampel, 29th Jul, 2018
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  8. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    But surely a borrower would at the very least ascertain what the security for the loan is and if it is a limited recourse loan.
     
    Terry_w, 29th Jul, 2018
    #28
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  9. Chai Walla

    Chai Walla Member

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    There seems to be some confusion around Steve Navra and Steve Navratil.

    Actually Steve Navra and Steve Navratil are one and the same person. Steve Navra apparently changed his name from Steve Navra to Steve Navratil at the request of his dying father, however Steve Navratil is Steve Navra, and Steve Navra is Steve Navratil.

    Steve Navra, or should I say Steve Navratil has had some pretty bad press across the internet. If you are looking for the background story of Steve Navratil, then you should in the first instance do a search on Steve Navra. You can then simply substitute Steve Navra for Steve Navratil and get all the information you require.

    For clarity sake, I will refer to Steve Navra as Steve Navratil.

    Steve Navratil started his journey back in the early 2000s, while he was living in Canberra. After that Steve Navratil moved to Sydney where he kick off a whole business around providing financial advice called Navra Invest, although if it was done today I am sure it would have been called Navratil Invest :)

    There is so much information on the net about Steve Navrati l (Steve Navra) but I will put a few links here as a starting point.

    Steve Navra - Economics References Committee 2015-08-06

    Steve Navra - Guru or Ghost?

    Steve Navratil aka Steve Navra

    Dailytelegraph.com.au | Subscribe to The Daily Telegraph for exclusive stories

    We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

    Steve Navratil aka Steve Navra

    As they say ‘’buyer beware” and if you need to do your due diligence about Steve Navratil, then no stone should remain unturned. Steve Navratil will need to be looked at through the same lens that you would look at any other person – Just because Steve Navratil has changed his name from Steve Navra to Steve Navratil does not mean that he is a different person. Steve Navratil is still the same person as Steve Navra, and this will need to be taken into consideration.

    Bon chance,

    Chai
     
    Chai Walla, 29th Jul, 2018
    #29
  10. Indifference

    Indifference Well-Known Member

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    I recall there being a few Navra Evangelists on SS forum..... there are a couple of other "investment cult leaders" (as I fondly refer to then... they seem to like exotic cars too) that have tainted many a self proclaimed smart investor from SS.
     
    Indifference, 29th Jul, 2018
    #30
  11. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    It's true.

    People ask: is my loan cross collateralised?

    Did they read the loan docs before they signed them? If so, did they understand them?

    An investor should never be asking on a property forum if their loan is cross collateralised
     
    Perthguy, 29th Jul, 2018
    #31
  12. qak

    qak Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I read contracts too. Fortunately I haven't had too many (and yes I do skip the online ones too). Recently I received a new employment contract and when I pointed out numerous clauses I objected to, was told that no-one else had ever had an issue. Among other things, the contract included not being able to work for a competitor within a 50km radius for up to 12 months, and having to get written permission from this employer before applying for a new job! And people were signing this sort of thing :eek:
     
    qak, 29th Jul, 2018
    #32
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  13. val

    val Well-Known Member

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    Got sucked in and lost money on what? From what I understand Steve had 2 funds collapse and lose investors money:

    1. Great Southern (which most of these press reports are about)
    2. Navra Invest (his stock trading fund)

    Does anyone know which scheme lost the most money for people on SS and PC, was it Great Southern or Navra Invest?

    I'm not sure why this latest witch-hunt for Steve has surfaced, is it because he changed his name from Navra to Navratil or something else?
     
    val, 29th Jul, 2018
    #33
  14. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    No enforceable
     
    Terry_w, 29th Jul, 2018
    #34
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  15. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    • Great Southern
    • NavraInvest Australian Share fund investors
    • NavraInvest US Share fund investors (fund was wound up after only a year or so of operation and very poor performance)
    • NavraInvest shareholders (ie people who bought shares in the company itself)
    • NavraInvest Asia Pacific Fund (structured investment - unsure as to the status of this)
    • NavraInvest Structured Property Fund (structured investment - still not wound up)
    Difficult to tell where people lost the most money. The thing with the share fund was that people borrowed large sums of money to invest in it - but many also made quite a bit of money in the years before the market crashed.

    The people who were advised to hold on to their share fund investments during the market downturn were probably the worst affected.

    Great Southern was primarily used as a tax-minimisation tool, so the amounts invested would have typically been lower, however many people borrowed the majority of the money invested and thus the losses were potentially greater when it collapsed.

    Every so often there is new media coverage - typically triggered by some event like the Royal Commission or someone losing or winning some legal battle.
     
    Simon Hampel, 29th Jul, 2018
    #35
  16. Purple Patch

    Purple Patch Well-Known Member

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    +1 lost $ with NavraInvest shareholder
    :(:mad::mad::mad:
     
    Purple Patch, 29th Jul, 2018
    #36
  17. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    In my last job I looked after the mobile phones. We were switching to Apple and we wanted to implement the corporate configuration thing (DEP + VPP). Not only did I have to get our legal team to review the contracts involved, I had to get sign off from the CEO to permit me to click to accept... took months to get through it. Worth it though.

    cheers,
    Inertia.
     
    inertia, 30th Jul, 2018
    #37
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