Solicitors who are successful property investors?

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by ZenSapphire, 10th Nov, 2019.

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  1. ZenSapphire

    ZenSapphire Active Member

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    tldr: do we have any on PC?

    Hey PC,

    I've been reading a bunch of the investor stories here and over on SS and it has been really inspiring. I've seen multiple stories about property investors who then become mortgage brokers.

    But what about solicitors? They are on high income already and surely they must be inspired by some of their clients?

    Are there any stories about solicitors that are also successful property investors? Particularly any that are in Sydney and still in practice! :)
     
  2. Morgs

    Morgs Well-Known Member Business Member

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    I can assure you there are plenty of successful solicitor/investors who are still in practice.... I can't tell their stories for them though so hopefully you'll have someone pop up a reply :)

    The main issue with anyone exiting a high paying successful PAYG career and becoming a mortgage broker (or insert other property related discipline) is that your borrowing capacity is going to go from *insert millions here* to zero overnight. And servicing is king for an investor!
     
  3. Terry_w

    Terry_w Well-Known Member Business Member

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    Why does it matter what work a person does?
     
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  4. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    My parent's previous solicitor had the anti-Midas touch. Whatever he bought turned to mud. His ppor, commercial office etc.
     
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  5. ZenSapphire

    ZenSapphire Active Member

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    It’s a complimentary skill I guess. Not a dealbreaker, just interested in how/if solicitors have a different lense from the property adventures.

    Using a sporting analogy:
    • Coach A played top level football.
    • Coach B was a corporate guy.
    Can coach B be just as good or better than coach A? Of course!

    Would the chances of learning from Coach A be higher? Would Coach A have different perspectives? Possibly.

    it reminds me of this quote from Mitchell Starc recently.

    Mitchel Starc, Cricket Australia feud: Ian Chappell criticises high performance manger Drew Ginn
     
  6. Morgs

    Morgs Well-Known Member Business Member

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    Coaching could also be considered a completely different skillset versus playing the sport itself too. You could be the best football player of all time but if you don't have the communication and collaboration skills required to be a successful coach you won't be effective in that role.

    This often happens in the corporate world when successful subject matter experts transition from individual contributor roles where they're a superstar in terms of delivering results themselves, then moving into management and they fail to deliver results through their team.
     
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  7. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Finance broker and strategist Business Member

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    I wouldn't think that being a solicitor is any more complimentary than a doctor, engineer or many other professions. Mortgage broker and buyers agents are far more complimentary. Interestingly I know very few property managers who are also investors.

    I know plenty of solicitors who are property investors. Some do have access to certain types of deals due to their client base and level of sophistication, specific role in the legal landscape. Your average solicitor isn't quite as sophisticated as most people think though.

    I see a lot more IT people being investors than probably any other profession.
     
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  8. Mel Morgan

    Mel Morgan Sydney Property Manager Business Member

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    I think a high income job generally translates to advice to purchase property either for tax benefits or as a storage of wealth. Whether you're a doctor, in IT, solicitor..

    Maybe as a property lawyer or conveyancer you would get more exposure to property deals, but so would accountants, valuers, surveyors, engineers etc

    A good portion of brokers and BAs developed a love of property first (myself included) and changed careers, whereas those with a high income likely started with a career and invested as a consequence.

    Unfortunately generally property managers who start in real estate aren't in very high income jobs.
     
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  9. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    risk taking and financial knowledge isnt part of the training of solicitors. Old adage about doctors being unhealthy, accountants messing up there own taxes, etc
     
    Last edited: 10th Nov, 2019
  10. ZenSapphire

    ZenSapphire Active Member

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    This was a really good distinction Mel, thanks! I think this is the more critical driver rather than occupation, in line with Terry's question.

    The reason this question was on my mind was because of a recent experience with a buyer's agent. I have met up with a few to see if we would work well together and I had an interesting experience with one agent from an award winning agency.

    Me: do you invest in much property yourself?
    Him: No, frankly I don't like debt.
    ...
    Me: how do you feel this impacts you compared to your other buyer's agents colleagues when you are buying?
    Him: I don't think it does. For example, one of the other agents has to sell off a couple of his properties because he was overcommitted.​

    Now I don't know if he or his property investor colleague would make a better buyer's agent, but I do have a bias towards who I would rather engage between the two.
     
  11. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    Do you ask your doctor whether theyve experienced the same condition they are treating you for?

    some can teach much better than they can do, because doing involves different skill sets. As an investor you want each expert to be better than you in that particular aspect, not necessarily for them to be a better investor.

    Most of the time you want a neutral expert and you make the call. A buyers agent who is invested in an area might be biased towards it. Someone who lost money in an area might be biased against it.
     
    Last edited: 11th Nov, 2019
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  12. ZenSapphire

    ZenSapphire Active Member

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    I do ask the doctor about their experiences with their specialty.

    Agree with the benefits of a neutral expert and you do make a good point about someone having personal bias. Its a good perspective, thanks Trainee.
     
  13. New Town

    New Town Well-Known Member

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    I suspect many of those in property related professions - solicitor, valuer, agents, property managers etc hold back from investing because of their knowledge of what can go wrong
     
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  14. New Town

    New Town Well-Known Member

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    If a BA doesnt have any of their own investments I would think maybe they don't have the money. Which then raises questions on skill, experience etc.

    And if they were 24 years old with 50 IP's I'd probably be nervous as well ha ha
     
    Last edited: 11th Nov, 2019
  15. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    experience as doctor or as a patient?
     
  16. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Most of the solicitors I know on "high incomes" are pretty much useless at anything else apart from their job. No real time for anything else.

    Out of my mates, I'm probably the lawyer on the lowest salary for my PAE level. I suspect I do the most investing though.

    Shrug.

    I don't think one's profession has anything to do with investing proficiency imo.
     
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  17. bmc

    bmc Well-Known Member

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    as a Land Surveyor / Project Manager sometimes after focusing on clients property issues day in day out, the last thing you want to do is look at again when home.
    how many plumbers do you know with leaky taps or mechanics personal cars with oil leaks.
    sometimes you just look for other avenues to invest in for a change of scenery.
    although working in the industry does enable you to come across prospective deals before others do.
     
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  18. Paul@PFI

    [email protected] Tax Accounting + SMSF Business Plus Member

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    Its kinda like expecting a cancer specialist who hasnt had cancer to be bad at their job.

    I would think a property focussed solicitor who deals with loads of property, trust and other tax issues may be more KNOWLEDGEABLE but does it make them better ?? Not necessarily. I have seen some legal persons who are just terrible with anything involving numbers.
     
  19. ZenSapphire

    ZenSapphire Active Member

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    Thanks for all the perspectives. My takeaway is I have a personal bias towards people that “eat their own cooking” and I have misapplied this bias in this scenario of an occupation having a strong correlation with property investment. Appreciate the shining light on this blind spot.

    I’m not sure about the doctor analogies!

    I reckon it might be more like a mechanic who doesn’t like driving?

    Or a butcher that doesn’t eat meat?

    Or a professor of taxation who has never entered the workforce?
     
  20. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Do you know much about what lawyers do day to day though? Honestly most lawyers are just glorified paper pushers, and rarely have to even critically think too much.

    Also, I don't see how generic legal matters have anything to do with investment or property?