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Solar Rebates

Discussion in 'General Property Chat' started by melbournian, 5th Jun, 2016.

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  1. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    in regards to solar rebates in victoria does anyone know does the "rebate rate" stay the same with the Property or does it stay the with the account holder ? New installations of solar now have a different rebate rate compared to installations in the past.

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  2. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

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    Not sure of VIC but in NSW there is no law requiring providers to pay a tariff for anything you push to the grid, AGL in NSW pays 8c and that is about the best you will get.
     
  3. Tillie

    Tillie Well-Known Member

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    In Vic rebates are assigned to the meter. Effectively a new owner will inherit the original rebate scheme. We bought a new house and the existing 66c rebates with it
     
  4. Sonamic

    Sonamic Well-Known Member

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    In Qld it stays with the original account holder. Once the account is closed new account holder only gets 8c I believe.
    When we convert our current PPOR to an IP I'll be leaving the account in my name and passing the solar savings onto the tenant in exchange for an extra $20 a week in rent or so.
     
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  5. sauber

    sauber Well-Known Member

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    Origin ive heard are doing 12c now. But seriously not worth having solar only if you have battery backup on it.
     
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  6. Sonamic

    Sonamic Well-Known Member

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    Yes, government is still doing the 8c? Add to that the Origin 12c and the best you can hope for is 20c. Still less than 1/3 of the OP.
    All my IP's I put solar on also. I think it's more attractive to tenants. Whilst at the same time future proofing somewhat for the day when battery storage becomes everyman affordable.
    When we build our next PPOR I'm putting on solar again, but with a battery storage system built into the garage wall to keep any nasties buzzing into living areas, also allows the batteries to be close to any future electric vehicles that may require charging.
     
  7. Barny

    Barny Well-Known Member

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    Is solar power worth it? Just called to find out on costs on Friday. They mentioned a 3kw unit will cost about 5-6k installed. And will take about 6-8 years to recoup those costs in savings. And you need to use your devices(washing machine, dishwasher) during the day to use the stored electricity, otherwise it goes back into the grid and its wasted.

    Anyone know about any new battery systems coming in? Something that can save the energy to use at night time as well and the electricity company's don't take the profits if there's additional stored.
     
  8. Ed Barton

    Ed Barton Well-Known Member

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    What politician thought it was a good idea that people get paid more for selling power than buying it with their subsidies? <end rant>

    If you're on one of the juicy rebate schemes selling power at ~68c and buying it at ~30c why would you buy a battery system?

    For everyone else I reckon batteries will be affordable within maybe 5 years.
     
  9. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    this was an ip i am inheriting from the previous owner (an environmental scientist), i'll call AGL to see what the official line is on Monday. you;re rite 68c is a pretty sweet deal
     
  10. Anne11

    Anne11 Well-Known Member

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    I installed 2 systems 4 years ago, with the 54c rebate from Click Energy, 1 breakeven after 3.5 years ( the inverter stopped working for 6 months and had to be replaced ) the other breakeven after 3 years, only because of the high rebate rate. Personally I don't think it is a worthwhile investment if the rebate is only half of what we get charged. The other thing to consider is there is less and less electricity generated by the panels as each year goes by ( roughly 85-90% of the previous year).

    Also our panels and inverters are Chinese made costing $3,600 for a 3 kw system.

    Ta
     
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  11. Ed Barton

    Ed Barton Well-Known Member

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    I bet you only get the paltry ~20c mentioned above. Just as state govts all rushed in to get everyone on solar, they all realised about the same time what a massive **** up they'd made and wound the system back. If it's an IP then no advantage to have the power in your name.
     
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  12. Sonamic

    Sonamic Well-Known Member

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    I am on one of the juicy rebate schemes. But juicy rebate days are over. Like I said when we leave our current PPOR (which has the juicy rebate), I'll leave the power in my name and pass on the rebate savings to the tenant for a little more rent my way. Many are doing this.
    Seeing as juicy rebates are no longer available, building a new PPOR now and installing a battery storage system is the only way to make/keep solar cost effective going forward.
     
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  13. Ed Barton

    Ed Barton Well-Known Member

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    What do you think batteries will go for?
     
  14. Ed Barton

    Ed Barton Well-Known Member

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    Do you think tenants value solar? $20pw is $240 a bill - will they save that and will they recognise they will save that?
     
  15. Sonamic

    Sonamic Well-Known Member

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    Tesla Powerwall systems go for about 10k.
    If you have existing roof panels and inverter (like most people who bought solar for juicy rebates, which will eventually run dry) I'd imagine a battery storage system only, to be cheaper.
    I'm looking into doing this as a business. So if any electricians out there are looking for a new opportunity to get into green energy through solar power with battery storage systems, I'll be your passionate SE Qld sales rep. :p
     
  16. Sonamic

    Sonamic Well-Known Member

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    I like to think so. I just had a 1kw system installed on a new build a couple of months ago. System cost $1125 installed. Point of difference to all the other 4/2/2 houses in the same new estate. Seeing as it's the only house on the block with solar I think so. But I could have just wasted $1125, and I'm ok with that. It rents at market. I can Claim it. In future when battery storage becomes cheaper, I can hook that up the batteries and charge a rental premium for it. If it's Green & Clean people will pay a little extra. If it means free electricity AND save the environment from global warming then we can ALL feel warm and fuzzy about me charging an extra $20 a week for it.

    Current PPOR once converted to a future IP will be let with LL supplied power, up to $100. So say you were a prospective tenant. Would you rent a house advertised with a headline of "Free* Electricity Included"? Fine print states Landlord will pay first $100 of Bill. In the case of the OP and the bill pictured being $466.66 in CREDIT do you think "free" electricity would be worth an extra $20 a week in rent? What's an average power bill worth these days, $400? So for $260 who is more in front?
     
  17. Barny

    Barny Well-Known Member

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    Did some further digging into costs with tesla. So currently it will take 14-24 years depending on how you use it to get money's worth.
    But the good news is that prices have dropped roughly 14% per year, so in another 5 years it might be worth it.


    Tesla Powerwall payback time - CHOICE

    How much does it cost?

    Natural Solar is selling a 4kW solar panel system and Powerwall with a Fronius hybrid inverter for $13,990 GST inclusive and fully installed. The same system with a SolarEdge inverter costs $14,990. Prices already take into account rebates for small-scale technology certificates (STCs).

    If you already have solar panels, the Powerwall and a compatible inverter will cost you between $12,000 and $12,500 depending on which inverter you choose.

    Origin is another provider of the Powerwall, but they are currently only selling the unit as part of a complete package with solar panels. Origin is selling a 4kWh solar panel system with a SolarEdge inverter and Powerwall for $16,500 GST inclusive, fully installed and with STC rebates taken into account.

    As a rough estimate of the payback time for a typical household, we looked at the energy usage of Andrew, who has signed up for an installation of a solar array combined with a Powerwall with Origin. Andrew has a freestanding house in Sydney, where he lives with his wife and two children, aged eight and 10. Andrew and his wife both work from home part-time, which makes their energy use higher than most households, but it also gives them more potential to tap into their own solar energy rather than feeding it to the grid.

    If Andrew was to install a 4kW solar array on his roof, he could expect to generate around 15.6 kWh of electricity per day, on average. About 7.5 kWh of this would be required to charge the Powerwall due to inefficiencies with the battery and inverter, which could then be used to offset 6.4 kWh of his energy use during the night. This would save him $1.40 per day (6.4 kWh x 21.81 c/kWh).

    If we assume Andrew didn't use the remaining 8.1kWh of solar energy after charging the Powerwall and fed it back into the grid, this would earn him $0.49 per day with a feed-in tariff of 6 c/kWh. Together with the savings from using the Powerwall to store electricity for later use, this will give a total saving of around $687 per year.

    With Origin's total system cost of $16,500, Andrew has a payback time of just over 24 years, or 2.4 times the warranty period.

    But since Andrew and his wife work from home part-time, this allows them to make the most of their solar panels. If we assume Andrew could use half of his solar electricity remaining after charging his Powerwall every day, then he would lose $0.24 per day in feed-in tariffs but would save an additional $0.88 per day in electricity costs (4.05 kWh x 21.81 c/kWh). This would save him $2.52 per day or close to $921 per year. This equals a payback time of 18 years.

    Obviously, the more solar energy Andrew can use to power his house, the better the payback time will be through lower electricity bills. As a best-case scenario, let's assume Andrew managed to tap into all of his solar power by increasing his daytime energy use and charging his Powerwall; Andrew would be saving $3.40 per day (14.5kWh x 21.81 c/kWh), giving an annual saving of $1,154 or a payback time of just over 14 years.
     
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  18. Ed Barton

    Ed Barton Well-Known Member

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    What your proposing is a good deal for the tenant. The Op's bill is $466 in credit, but this period's credit is only $143. The $466 has been accumulated over who knows how long.

    I just don't know (genuinely don't know) if tenants will go for it. It may be perceived as a scam. It's not a common thing so tenants may be cautious.

    How much power does a 1kw system produce? More than $240 per quarter?
     
  19. Sonamic

    Sonamic Well-Known Member

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    Ahhhh sadly no. Not even close. About 7kWh per day or $120 per quarter bonus saving to the tenant (I currently don't charge extra rent for it). But that's the smallest one I've had installed over the years. Usually I go for anything between 3-5kw systems. It was purely a point of difference exercise and future proofing. All my properties have solar. So that when the day comes that battery storage systems come down to say $3000 or less, I'll start working my way through installing them into IP's to store power for tenants. Clean, green, and probably a waste of my money. But it's an experiment I deem worthwhile, especially for a PPOR.
     
  20. Sonamic

    Sonamic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Barny
    It's not for everybody granted. Power may not get dearer for a while, but I'd bet money providers fees will.
     
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