Should mask use be mandated for indoors?

Discussion in 'COVID-19' started by Sackie, 23rd Dec, 2021.

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Masks need to be mandated by the government

  1. Yes, mandate use for indoors

    36 vote(s)
    69.2%
  2. No mandating needed. Leave it upto individuals to decide

    16 vote(s)
    30.8%
  1. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    Yes to masks indoors. I'll be wearing mine

    Perth's mask rules
     
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  2. shorty

    shorty Well-Known Member

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    He also seems to think sunburn is contagious, so...
     
  3. Baker

    Baker Well-Known Member

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    That I can't wait to decide on him.

    Yes, it's the seatbelt / speed limit difference. Masks are more like a speed limit for protection of all, not a seat belt to protect the individual.

    Interestingly, it's not left to individuals to decide on seat belts OR speed limits...
     
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  4. maroon

    maroon Well-Known Member

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    Since you don't have evidence, let's talk anecdotes. I've never come across bacterial pneumonia among the hundreds of all-day-mask wearing healthcare workers I work with?

    Also, if rebreathing exhaled air causes bacterial pneumonia, N95s must be much worse than leaky cloth masks? Yet you're promoting N95s. Contradictory?

    For the record, I agree that medical masks are better than cloth masks.
     
  5. Millie

    Millie Well-Known Member

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    I’m glad masks are mandated indoors. But I’m equally glad they are not mandated outdoors.
     
  6. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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    Well I have and a doctor that works in emergency that I know has had quite a few presenting this way as well. They test negative for all viruses but suspected B.N. showing on CT scans. I’m not promoting N95 but equally I think the cheap cloth masks are crap. At best the recommendation is that masks need to be changed within 4 hours. Must be a reason for that recommendation you would think, otherwise you would wear the same mask all day right.
     
  7. Gockie

    Gockie Life is good ☺️ Premium Member

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    Ditto. But if someone chooses to wear a mask outdoors, all power to them. I’ve seen people put others down for choosing to wear a mask outdoors, and that’s not on in my book.
     
  8. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    I voted YES.

    I find most people are far better looking when they are wearing their masks :D
     
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  9. Millie

    Millie Well-Known Member

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    Warning - poor taste alert. I see humour in places others may not.

    True story:

    I have just been to the supermarket and saw a man with no mask.

    The thing is, he had no nose.

    1. He would have been much better looking if he was wearing a mask.
    2. Was he not wearing a mask because he didn’t have a nose to wedge it on?

    Apologies to all offended.
     
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  10. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    The mask would help but if they took their clozapine, even better. :p
     
    Last edited: 24th Dec, 2021
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  11. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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    The wearing of seatbelts have very good data supporting its measure as a safety benefit to drivers and passengers. Speed limits, well in some places they are right, in other areas they are wrong. Advanced driver training skills, better roads and cars, less distractions, there’s a whole of things there that the individual can do to protect themselves and other around them.
    Making a correlation between road safety laws and stopping the transmission of an aerosol virus with a cheap cloth wearing is questionable. We have had people being told to wear masks when walking into a club but allowed to take it off when you sit down at a table. We have been told to wear a mask while going for a walk outside with nobody around. We have been told to not talk to our neighbour or look at the sunset. We have been told to not touch the football that bounced over the fence while players are jumping all over each other.
    One thing we have learned is that lockdowns don’t work in suppressing the virus, they in fact increase the spread because families were forced to stay inside for hours in close contact and only allowed outside for one hour a day.
    We are told that the Pfizer was 94 percent effective of stopping you catch and transmit the virus but now you have to have a third jab after 3 months to keep your job. Two weeks to flatten the curve, BS. Lies, lies and lies.
    I have had friends with adverse reactions who are still be coerced to go back for another go, businesses everywhere destroyed, I have done all that has been asked from me and I think it’s time we got passed these mandates. The data out of Scotland and South Africa suggest that the Omicron is 5 times more milder than the Delta, and it’s time for the politicians and the media to stop the scaring of people and instead instil confidence and make sensible recommendations.
    I’m sorry if this is a bit long and a rant, but that’s the way I feel about it right now.
     
    Last edited: 24th Dec, 2021
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  12. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    ... and yet both Victoria and NSW both successfully suppressed the virus using lockdowns recently:

    upload_2021-12-26_7-24-38.png

    upload_2021-12-26_7-24-10.png

    We stopped the exponential growth of an infectious disease - which is by very definition "suppressing" the virus. We could not have achieved this without lockdowns.

    And now that such a high percentage of our populations are vaccinated - the risks are substantially lower than they were in July, so I don't think we'll need the same response again.

    Because Omicron changes everything.

    Not 5 times milder than Delta. For an unvaccinated person, around 11% less chance of hospitalisation, and for fully vaccinated (2 doses) or previously infected person - somewhere between 25% and 80%, depending on which study you looked at and the exact criteria you measured.

    The important thing is that if you are hospitalised - the severity of illness is largely unchanged from Delta - you're still likely to have a very bad time.

    More importantly, Omicron is hugely more infectious than Delta - so when taken on a population basis (rather than looking at individual risk), seeing a 33% decrease in the chance of hospitalisation is irrelevant if we also see a 3x increase in infections due to Omicron - we'll still end up with the same number of people in hospital.

    The key thing being - once our hospitals fill up with sick COVID patients, then other people start to suffer because there won't be enough resources available to treat them and there will be an increase in preventable deaths.

    This is why we still need some restrictions - even if lockdowns are no longer necessary.

    Wearing masks and getting vaccinated (including boosters) is proving to be fairly effective at preventing a large number of hospitalisations and deaths, even without lockdowns.

    At worst, I would consider this outbreak to be extremely inconvenient rather than something to be scared about.

    There is a lot of evidence now showing the effectiveness of wearing masks to help reduce the spread. Surgical masks are better than cheap cloth masks - but cloth masks still do help and not all cloth masks are "cheap" or less effective.

    The vast majority of people I see wearing masks are using surgical masks.

    It's not a huge imposition, really.
     
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  13. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I like the idea of the QR check in so that if I get pinged, I can check where I was and if I believe I could be infected, I can stay away from my 92 year old mother-in-law until I can have a test.

    I think track and trace is not possible with our numbers, and I don't know if they are even doing that now.
     
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  14. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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    With the rapid antigen test you could know your health status way before your would get pinged. By the time one gets pinged it’s probably too late. The other option is to check the websites of major stores like Woolworths and Coles as they publish stores that have been exposed to covid quite quickly. Saying that, shops like Coles are at the lower end of infection and one can limit their exposure even more by visiting very early morning or late at night, when there is nobody there. I try to get my vegetables from a farm or order online and get it delivered.
    The highest case infections have been at teenager indoor parties and family get together or sitting in a doctor’s surgery waiting for an hour for a 5 minute appointment.
     
  15. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Fair enough, but it's no imposition to check in as you enter a store. If it helps, then that ten seconds is worth it in my opinion.
     
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  16. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Rapid antigen tests are only really useful if you already have COVID symptoms - for asymptomatic people, they are not always very accurate.

    They are also only accurate if you actually use them correctly - self administered tests are subject to inaccuracies due to user error. Accuracy also varies greatly between products.

    Indeed, if you are known to have been in contact with someone who has COVID and you have symptoms - then you should go and get a full PCR test, because a RAT is not as reliable.

    From the TGA's FAQs ON RATs:

    How accurate are these tests?

    Rapid antigen self-tests are can detect the virus in the acute phase of infection - especially just before you show symptoms and in the first week of symptoms becoming apparent – but they are not as accurate as PCR tests. It is very important to follow the instructions for both sample collection and performance of the test. Poor sample collection and incorrect use of the test will impact the accuracy of the test.

    In the wider community setting where there are low rates of COVID-19, the tests are less accurate as there is a higher risk of false positive and false negative results.

    For any positive result, it is very important that you seek follow up testing with a PCR test. It is not acceptable to just repeat the test in the hope of the second test being negative.

    If you have symptoms or feel unwell but get a negative result with a self-test you should always seek further PCR testing by contacting the appropriate state/territory health department(link is external).

    I'm not suggesting that RAT's are not useful - but they are not a replacement for PCR tests to determine accurate infection status.
     
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  17. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    Rapid Antigen Tests cost $15 each, or 5 for $50. If one was to rely.on these for frequent testing, the cost could mount up quickly, especially for a family.
     
  18. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    In the UK, they have been able to order a pack of 7 RATs per household per day - supplied for free by the government.

    If you consider how much the government is currently spending on pathology services for PCR tests - it would potentially save them a lot of money to just give out RATs for free.
     
  19. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    I believe it is $100 rebate per test. So 100,000 test per day @ $100 v 100,000 RATs @ $15 each.
     
  20. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    100% how I feel as well. So many people walking around with it at the moment, you don't know who's got it and who hasn't. If I'm going to be out in public, I'm much more comfortable if everyone is wearing masks, especially the staff in establishments that serve food.
     
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