SEPP Medium Density - Dual Occupancy - Subdivisions - Blacktown

Hi
From what I am aware Blacktown council did not defer the SEPP Medium Density

Erecting a dual occupancy on R2 land has not been an issue with the SEPP or historically under DA

Prior to SEPP the LEP prohibited subdivisions of dual occs unless they were on dual road lots and each lot faced a different road and were >300m2. The LEP also stated subdivisions were ok if each lot were > min lot size (usually 450m2)

Under the exhibition SEPP medium density which was on display earlier this year it mentioned subdivision was prohibited if prohibited in the LEP. I cannot see this in the actual SEPP.

Currently Under 6.4 (d) (i) of Part 6 Division 2 of the SEPP (Torrens Subdivision) states if the subdivision relates to a dual occupancy, the area of each resulting lot must be at least 60% of the minimum size specified for the subdivision of land for the purpose of a dual occupancy in the environmental planning instrument that applies to the land.

Could this apply to the 450m2 (for one road lots) from above hence each lot has to be >270m2? (on lots where the min lot size is 450m2)

 

The Blacktown LEP shows dual occupancy dwellings as "permitted with consent" so that is the first hurdle out of the way.

Next I would call the duty planner at Blacktown Council to confirm what they understand is the min lot size for what you wish to do. If they come back negative without some logical reason then I can look at it in more detail for you.

 

Thanks for the reply @Anthony416

I dont think blacktown council can help if going through SEPP but they have explained their rules for subdivision (under their LEP) which is not the current issue.

On another note @Anthony416 had a quick browse on your website and saw you deal with subdivision application. Do you have contacts to certifiers that can issue subdivision certificates? From what i know it would be them who would have the final say

 

Unfortunately as regards certifiers, nobody I know well enough to recommend among them.

Yes, if you read Schedule 6A and 6B of the State Environmental Planning Policy (Exempt and Complying Development Codes) 2008, and all looks OK there, then certifiers should be able to help.

I mainly prepare documentation to do the subdivisions that are outside of the SEPPs (require a DA).

 

From what I am aware Blacktown council did not defer the SEPP Medium Density

• Correct. Duplex under the Medium Density SEPP are still permissible (subject to conformity to Blacktown LEP for minimum Lot size (MLS). Erecting a dual occupancy on R2 land has not been an issue with the SEPP or historically under DA as long as subdivision is not requested (as you may be well aware).
  
  
  Prior to SEPP the LEP prohibited subdivisions of dual occs unless they were on dual road lots and each lot faced a different road and were >300m2. The LEP also stated subdivisions were ok if each lot were > min lot size (usually 450m2)
  
  
  
• The position of subdivision has not changed in our experience, understanding and opinion as the SEPP still relies on the LEP for this matter.
  
  
  
  4.1C Subdivision of dual occupancies prohibited
  
  
  (1) Development consent must not be granted for a subdivision that would create separate titles for each of the 2 dwellings comprising a dual occupancy unless:
  
  (a) each of the 2 dwellings has a frontage to a different road, and
  
  (b) the size of each lot resulting from the subdivision is not less than 300 square metres.
  
  
  (2) Nothing in this clause or any other provision of this Plan prevents a subdivision that would create separate titles for each of the 2 dwellings comprising a dual occupancy of a detached dual occupancy development if the 2 resulting lots would meet the minimum size shown on the Lot Size Map in relation to that land.
  
  
  
  Under the exhibition SEPP medium density which was on display earlier this year it mentioned subdivision was prohibited if prohibited in the LEP. I cannot see this in the actual SEPP.
  
  
  
• YES-The SEPP still relies on concurrence with the local LEP in each jurisdiction. Thus for subdivision-It is our opinion & experience that we (sadly) must look at the requirements under the LEP as well.
  
  
  Currently Under 6.4 (d) (i) of Part 6 Division 2 of the SEPP (Torrens Subdivision) states if the subdivision relates to a dual occupancy, the area of each resulting lot must be at least 60% of the minimum size specified for the subdivision of land for the purpose of a dual occupancy in the environmental planning instrument that applies to the land.
  
  Could this apply to the 450m2 (for one road lots) from above hence each lot has to be >270m2? (on lots where the min lot size is 450m2)
  
  
  
• 6.4 (1) (d) (i) > Yes technically correct. If the subdivision relates to a dual occupancy, the area of each resulting lot must be at least 60% of the minimum size specified for the subdivision of land for the purpose of a dual occupancy in the environmental planning instrument that applies to the land.
  
  
  
  You may be correct but all our attempts to-date have failed with getting Torrens approved under Blacktown council.
  
  
  The fact is-6.4 of the SEPP does NOT mention concurrency with the LEP thus theoretically can be considered as a stand-alone regulation and thus theorectically may get subdivision.
  
  
  But getting a certifier to issue subdivision as CDC under the SEPP for Blacktown-will eb the big issue. Blacktown are (actually) strict and our 10 years of experience with certifiers & SEPP CDC’s are scared of them/
  
  
  
  However-one must also consider (most importantly) the clause below
  
  Note SUBDIVISION of land is prohibited under Blacktown LEP.
  
  NSW Legislation
  
  
  Dual occupancy (attached) Minimum lot area 500m2 (not for subdivision) (250m2 per site)
  
  Dual occupancy (detached) Minimum lot area 600m2 (not for subdivision) (300m2 per site)
  
  
  The first decision is IF you are seeking approval under the SEPP or via council as DA/CC.
  
  
  The BIGGEST issue we are having with the duplexes under the SEPP is the massive amount of landscape area required. Usually clients look at the actual FLOOR AREAS resulting and conclude that going via council will get a LARGER building thus better for eventual return. Thus the question arises on the usefulness of the SEPP for duplexes. (we are still scratching our heads as to what the benefits are).
  
  I think you have a point and obviously done your research. FINDING a certifier who will issue subdivision under CDC for Blacktown council will be your challenge.
  
  Ibrahim

 

@IbrahimConlonArchitect

Anything around triplex for blacktown council and new sepp medium density scheme?

 

nah Canterbury Bankstown is EXEMPTED from the SEPP until July 2019, when the minister will reconsider submissions from the various LGA's and then reissue new included list for the medium density SEPP

see attachment of current deferred LGA's (councils).

 

@IbrahimConlonArchitect

I am going under SEPP

I understand its impossible going under DA if wanting torrens subdivision on a single lot land unless over the min lot size

Have you been down SEPP path yet (being only implemented 2 months ago its still early stages)

I am working with a certifier (previously used on strata certificate) who has given a vague answer but still not confident to purhase sites without further confirmation.

Notsure why you say landscaping is very high. Most councils require 50% while SEPP require 50% - 100m2. This also includes front and side (unless <1.5m width). While i know some councils are lenient compared to their rules i dont see this to be an issue

If you like pm me and we can discuss this further

 

sure; finding a certifier who will approve subdivision under CDC for Blacktown will be a miracle

 

Hey Guys, has anyone had any luck with getting a duplex in blacktown under sepp?
Im currently looking at buying a 800m2 corner block in the blacktown area which will allow us to have two detatched duplex's but im just wondering if it might be easier trying to go through a certifier?

any advice would be appreciated

 

I believe Blacktown LGA way back under the LEP allows subdivision of the land that is 600m2 and is Corner lot. You can have 2 x 300m lots of land, and build a home in each lot. Regular (non-corner) lot is a different beast.

 

Yeah that’s right. As long as both face different streets and oviously meet the lep and dcp requirements but I wonder if in this case it would be better to go through SEPP with a private Certifier.

I haven’t read through all of the medium housing code but just wanted to see what the benefits would be besides the faster approval.

 

I've seen both homes facing the same street for he corner lot subdivision. I've also seen a triplex on a corner lot, all facing the same street. Have a look at the one corner of Allay St and Balbeck Ave.

If you've built a granny flat under SEPP versus going council, you would see the difference in approval. Yes it's generally Private cert provide faster approval, but this all comes at a price..

 

hi Yes we do many CDC's.

1. Blacktown ALLOWS CDC for dual occupancy development under the Medium Density SEPP, however this may be reviewed later this year.

2. If you have a corner site it is preferable. You will need R2 zoning. First stage is RESEARCHING the site which is what we do well. First thing to check are (a) location of sewer main pipe-make sure pipe does not dissect the site and preferably located close to rear boundary (b) slope of land towards street-make sure land not slope to rear (otherwise will need easement to drain stormwater to rear which is slow, expensive and headache-but not impossible as courts are structured to force easements (allow 1 year and $70k) (c) 15m frontage. (c) check bushfire rating and any flood ratings. If all good-then you will have a duplex site. Note Blacktown does NOT allow Torrens Title subdivision-strata only.

Zoning; R1, R2, R3, RU5

Minimum Lot size; LEP minimum lot size area (MLS)

Usually 500m2 minimum for attached Dual Occupancy. 750m2 for detached.

Minimum Lot width; 12m (if laneway at rear) (measured at building line)

15m standard (measured at building line)

Maximum Height; 8.5m (2 storeys)

Avoid;

(a) Lands that slope to rear.

(b) Land in a flood area (low rating is ok).

(c) Land in bushfire area (low rating is ok).

(d) Land in heritage area

Subdivision; Strata only (refer council LEP)

Note;

1. We also need to get driveway(s) approved through council before certifier can release CDC Approval (so we would lodge both together at same time and/or lodge driveway application to council as quick as possible to speed up)

2. Subdivision (Strata)can be approved through CDC

3. Council damage deposit bond needs to be applied for before certifier can release CDC Approval (so we would lodge both together at same time and/or pay bond to council as quick as possible to speed up)

4. Sydney Water Section 73 Notice Of Requirements (NOR) need to be approved & released before CDC can be issued. This is from Water Service Coordinator (WSC).




Low Rise Medium Density Housing | NSW Planning Portal

Medium Density Housing

Complying development

https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/~/m...-for-development-applications-2017-07-05.ashx

 

Thanks for the information Ibrahim. Blacktown council allows Torrens title subdivision for corner blocks under the lep.

Under Clause 4.1C of Blacktown LEP 2015 the subdivision of dual occupancies and secondary dwellings is generally prohibited, except in the case of detached dual occupancies and secondary dwellings where the following both apply:
(a) The frontage of each dwelling comprising the dual occupancy or secondary dwelling faces a differently named street
(b) The size of each lot resulting from the subdivision is not less than 300sq.m.
It is noted that nothing in Blacktown LEP 2015 prevents the subdivision of a detached dual occupancy and secondary dwelling development if the 2 resultant lots meet the minimum allotment size specified in Clause 4.1 of the Plan.

 

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Yes-technically correct -if corner site as per 4.1C BLEP2015 but my experience (16 years) with Blacktown Council is that getting it ACTUALLY approved is difficult and subjective.

The thing to look at then is MLS (Minimum lot size) for detached dual occupancy under 4.1B and if land R2 zoning-then we need 300m2 per site (excluding any access/easements) and facing each frontage-no dramas.

Then with this taken into account-a CDC for duplex under the medium density SEPP possible as advised with requirements as advised in previous message.

Note; certifiers are quite reluctant to issue duplexes as CDC due to wide-spread lack of knowledge in the Medium Density SEPP and the uncertainty with upcoming July 2019 review-thus firstly detailed site research is required PRIOR to purchase of any land, as per usual.

It may then be advisable to consider going through council as DA & CC. Realistically its the same time for approval as driveways, Section 73 need to be approved as well BEFORE CDC released.

Anyway; see how you go. Countless times clients have come to us after buying the WRONG land. Rely on 'professional' experts in the field such as registered, practising Architect or town planner familiar with such. The true definition of 'professional' being that we are RESPONSIBLE for advice with adequate PI insurance in place for such advice. Thus we take extreme care in advising clients and DETAILED SITE RESEARCH is the foundation of advice. Ibrahim

 

Hi Ibrahim,
May I please know if you are familiar with the Penrith council criteria regarding dual occ subdivision?

I built a granny flat (60sqm + 12sqm patio) on 796sqm corner lot behind a older house. GF is built on 10 x 24 m. and it is entirely separated from the other dwelling and having its own separate street address, water meter, electricity meter (but sharing on same powerboard though)

Due to lot size criteria, is strata title possible?

Thanks.


Yes-technically correct -if corner site as per 4.1C BLEP2015 but my experience (16 years) with Blacktown Council is that getting it ACTUALLY approved is difficult and subjective.

The thing to look at then is MLS (Minimum lot size) for detached dual occupancy under 4.1B and if land R2 zoning-then we need 300m2 per site (excluding any access/easements) and facing each frontage-no dramas.

Then with this taken into account-a CDC for duplex under the medium density SEPP possible as advised with requirements as advised in previous message.

Note; certifiers are quite reluctant to issue duplexes as CDC due to wide-spread lack of knowledge in the Medium Density SEPP and the uncertainty with upcoming July 2019 review-thus firstly detailed site research is required PRIOR to purchase of any land, as per usual.

It may then be advisable to consider going through council as DA & CC. Realistically its the same time for approval as driveways, Section 73 need to be approved as well BEFORE CDC released.

Anyway; see how you go. Countless times clients have come to us after buying the WRONG land. Rely on 'professional' experts in the field such as registered, practising Architect or town planner familiar with such. The true definition of 'professional' being that we are RESPONSIBLE for advice with adequate PI insurance in place for such advice. Thus we take extreme care in advising clients and DETAILED SITE RESEARCH is the foundation of advice. Ibrahim[/QUOTE]

 

Hello friend


For all development enquiries, the standard operating procedure (SOP) is that we always firstly refer to the EPI (Environmental Planning Instruments) on the site and that (in order of precedence) is the LEP (local Environmental Plan) followed by DCP (Development Control Plan). If your land is located in growth area or other Urban Release Area (URA) and/or Precinct there may be other legislation. But typically in older-established areas the LEP & DCP set the relevant statute laws for us to consider when making research & determination for planning enquiries.


In regards to your enquiry the primary first consideration is zoning. ASSUMING your land is zoned R2 (I don’t have an address so cant check) but it is usual that residential lots are zoned R2. The R2 zoning objectives of councils ascribing to Standard Template LEP format permits most residential development and subdivision. So that’s a TICK on that.


Regards subdivision (Torrens/Strata) for dual occupancy development, as most NSW councils follow the standard LEP template, section 4 of each EPI typically sets-out the subdivision clauses.


I understand your question refers to Minimum Lot Size (MLS) for subdivision. MLS is typically considered when applying either (a) Torrens Title or (b) strata or (in rare cases) (c) community title subdivision proposals.


For Torrens title subdivision we must refer to the Lot Size Map on your site and that depends on the actual address and appropriate LEP Minimum Lot Size Map. Typically Part 4.1 of Penrith LEP sets-out (see link below)


NSW Legislation



Further to this, Dual Occupancy Development (Torrens /Strata Title) as set-out in Penrith LEP Part 4.1 sets out (see link);


NSW Legislation


This states that, in R2 zone land , detached dual occupancy (Torrens /Strata Title) requires minimum 650m2. Detached (separated) dual occupancy requires minimum 750m2.


Penrith LEP has no lower lot area sizes for strata subdivision sadly. It sees Torrens 7 Strata as the same.


So based on this, if land is 750m2 (you state your land is 796m2) it can possibly qualify for subdivision approval, subject to satisfaction of Penrith DCP 2014. The key matters being;

1. Setbacks

2. Landscape area

3. Private open space

4. Car parking

5. Site cover

6. Overshadowing

7. Privacy

8. Height


But prior to this more initial planning research for larger issues such as flooding, contamination, heritage, bushfire, landslip risk, bio diversity, riparian & watercourse affectation, mining & minerals, land subsidence, land acquisition/road widening MUST be checked.


So in conclusion, it looks like you may have a chance. Further research from a local, qualified & practising planner /registered Architect or development consultant needs to be undertaken. Steer clear of freelancer, draftspeople, building designers and the ilk. We are constantly amazed at the amount of unqualified people out there and amount of bad advice around. Stick with registered, insured, qualified & practising consultants.


We charge money for detailed advice but the above should set you on appropriate course.


We always urge clients to take a step-by-step and cautious approach and meeting with duty planners and/or making Pre-DA Applications before investing the considerable money required to obtain DA. This reduces risk.


Perhaps others here with more knowledge than I can confirm/disagree or comment


Disclaimer; I offer above in good-will, free of charge and the vendor shall conduct their own due diligence & independent research prior to purchasing any land or paying consultancy fee, making applications to council.


Ibrahim

 

correction;

This states that, in R2 zone land , ATTACHED dual occupancy (Torrens /Strata Title) requires minimum 650m2. Detached (separated) dual occupancy requires minimum 750m2.

 

Hi guys, I’m looking to build a duplex on a block that falls under the Blacktown council. Block size is 570sqm with a 15m front (not corner).

Reading through this Thread it appears as though the duplex could be subdivided via a strata title. Does anyone have a contact for a certifier that can assist with this?

thanks