See Change Holiday home - large groups - how many ?

Discussion in 'Airbnb & Short Term Letting' started by See Change, 14th Sep, 2017.

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  1. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    We have a holiday house which we're planning on renting out . In terms of number of people it can sleep , it can sleep 16 people in Proper beds in six bedrooms ( our kids have had many more ...) and we have several mattresses as extra's

    5 queens , two singles wit one queen and another room with 2 bunk beds . The wisdom of having that number of people staying there is another question , but I'm not asking about that . We'd be aiming for groups of couples , 2-3 families or extended family groups , with several generations which makes it fairly unique , along with the waterfront location , large entertaining areas etc

    Legally , what determines how many people you can advertise a house can sleep ?

    If we fitted the place with bunk beds thoughout we could fit 30 ( not going to do that ...:) but I'd assume we'd run into issues about running a boarding house etc .

    Is it a council issue ? Is it determined by how many rooms were designated as bedrooms when the plans were originally ?

    @Gockie , @Terry_w , @[email protected] , @Propertunity any thoughts ?

    We have lots of other issues to work though re insurance , booking , cleaning etc

    Cliff
     
  2. Gockie

    Gockie Unicycle anywhere and everywhere... Premium Member

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    Not sure of any legal issues with that many people staying, but I will say you will need to have enough chairs, cutlery, plates, glasses, blankets, sheets, towels, parking etc etc etc... for all the guests.
     
  3. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    That shouldn't be a problem :)

    Cliff
     
  4. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    It's definitely a council thing, although I can't see many councils with regulations. Some of the prohibitions are for DAs so won't affect your place.

    Gosford moves to sidestep holiday rental ruling

    You will already be aware the Airbnb places advertise with each bedroom showing the bedding for each bedroom, with the place advertised primarily by the number of people. Some places advertise a number, but have a description for more in special circumstances, say spare beds or a double bed which may be too small for two adults.
     
  5. mcarthur

    mcarthur Well-Known Member

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    Would you have to show that the sanitary systems can cope (lots of extra 1's and 2's for your sewer lines and thus down"stream" systems). The 6 bedrooms on the plans wouldn't be equivalent to 16 people for a long time. Anyone could have a dinner party with sh*tloads of guests ( :) ), but having large numbers for an appreciable time (?) may be different... I've no actual rules for you though.
     
  6. Blacky

    Blacky Well-Known Member

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    We have a small 3bed room beach shack. Its a small house with about 1200sqm of land. In reality if we have 4 adults and a couple of kids the place is cramped.

    However, come christmas/new years/easter we have housed in excess of 50 people. We turn the back of the house into tent land, and the front is the car park. Its a bit of a logistical nightmare, but perfectly possible.

    The 'systems' cant cope, but the trees get a good watering, and the public facilities down the road get a good work out.

    As long as we werent too unruley we were generally ok. The neighbors were usually invited over for a drink and bbq - so they couldnt complain about the noise. The police were only called in a few times (mostly when my mates decided to turn my suzuki upside down in the driveway). But after a while they got to know us, and it was ok.

    ahh... fun times..

    Blacky
     
  7. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    We're on pump out so it would be a case of pumping out more frequentally . When we've had a Sh..toad of people on a weekend , we pump out .

    There's few things we need to update before we launch and in reality , it's 6-9 months away ,

    We've talked to some local agents yesterday and we've got a couple coming around next weekend to have a look at the place .

    Our biggest dilemma is that it is a big house that can fit lots of people and runs the risk of being targeted as a Party house , which is the last thing we want , but being able to comfortably able to fit up to 6 couples in seperate rooms or up to 14- 16 if you have children or even more if you bring out mattresses ( extra kids etc - cots ) while doing that in an upmarket waterfront setting is quite unique and will enable us to charge a premium rent .

    We're thinking of using a local agent so it can be policed more closely . One we talked to uses a security firm to drive by and as a first call in case of issues . They've never had serious issues and the couple of times what have appeared to be party groups have slipped though , a shot fired across the bow ( having a local presence and pointing out the local security ) have avoided issues . There was a house rented on airbnb in the next suburb of bundamba which was used as a party house and complaints lead to the council stepping in , which is not what we want .

    Cliff
     
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  8. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    @geoffw

    Thanks for that link . My understanding is that there is a short term rental association that recommends that properties that have more than 4 bedrooms seek a DA but this isn't compulsory at this stage . If we did have issues rurther down the line , we could always lock rooms which would make it compliant so we could still rent it .

    Holiday rentals are quite a large segment of the tourist market up here so I can't imagine it being banned .

    I've just checked out the local ( mid coast ) council and it seems that directly and indirectly , tourism makes up 25 % of the local economy .

    They've just done a review to plan for the future and our property ticks several boxes in their priorities .

    Cliff
     
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  9. BuyersAgent

    BuyersAgent Well-Known Member

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  10. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Still going.... . We want to have everything finished before we rent it out . Difficult getting tradies up there , though the main issue is the Jetty . Took close to three years to get approvals . Meant to have started building it at the beginning of summer , then first job after Christmas , now out to “ before Easter “ .

    It’s not financially essential to rent it out urgently . What we don’t want is to rent it out and then have the jetty builder turn up and spend the next two weeks operating the pile driver ... wouldn’t be a good review .

    What we have decided to to re number of rooms is that we won’t include the room above the garage . The local agent said it wouldn’t increase the rent .

    Cliff
     
  11. marmot

    marmot Well-Known Member

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    The amount you can sleep for short term rentals is normally controlled by the DA approval thought council.
    It actually states maximum occupancy levels based on bedroom sizes and number of toilets and bathrooms.
    Some councils are strict on it , others not so strict.
    Many managing agents for short term letting wont even allow you to advertise on their websites without a copy of the DA approval (whick states maximum occupancy).
    With airbnb its just a tick n flick , so I think many just chose ignorance .
    Same goes for the Fire Safety Standards which can form part if the DA approval and states your requirements for short term letting.
    But if you dont have DA approval ,many just make up their own Fire Safety Standards , based upon a residential home with permanent tenants.
     
    Last edited: 16th Feb, 2019
  12. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Mid north coast not a problem as far as I know
     
  13. Paul@PFI

    [email protected] Tax Accounting + SMSF Business Plus Member

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    Council will not have issues with a lease. Some councils require holiday let approval and also for short stay. If not any occupant can be expelled and the owner face penalties. Could also be a strata breach. Care has to be taken that any lease isnt a sham and the occupant then relists as short stay pr letting rooms to persons not on lease without authority.

    eg Byron Bay : Byron Council set to fine holiday-let owners – Echonetdaily

    NSW Govt rules: Short-term letting
     
  14. BuyersAgent

    BuyersAgent Well-Known Member

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    Has your pile driver builder friend put the jetty in yet @See Change? Would love a pic if so
     
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  15. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see a picture of it too ... Yeah .... Sigh .... :rolleyes::( he's currently seems reluctant to give a time , or even a definite yes after two years of talks , plans and approvals .

    Not sure on the whole story , but the rock up there seems to scare them ,

    Current swapping info with another equally frustrated " jetty approved " local . The one guy who has always worked there is currently retiring and doing his last job . There are people who want to step into the void , but it's all , " I'll get back to you once I know what's happening "

    Cliff