Return on Investment sounds unreal: an crowdfunding property

Discussion in 'Investment Strategy' started by Olsen, 11th Jan, 2020.

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  1. Olsen

    Olsen New Member

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    Guys, I am looking at some crowdfunding property projects, not ready to invest any just learn it as something new. When I am looking at this so called most dominant crowdfunding property platform in Australia:
    Cornerstone Village Pimpama

    At the end of the webpage it gives a table of revenue and cost which lead to the final ROI of 63.37% which is attractive if you invest. According to these numbers given in the table:
    Revenue: 29M
    Cost: 25M
    Profit: 4M (revenue - cost)
    Equity: 7M (amount of total invest collected by all investor)

    So the ROI is 4M/7M=63.37%. My question is the 7M invest is just part of the total cost of 25M, given that, how the total 4M of profit will be all given back to the investors who only pay 7M? Or in another word, apart from the 7M, another 18M is needed which comes from somewhere else, it makes no sense all 4M profit comes to the 7M invest so the other 18M has no profit return at all.
     
  2. Lindsay_W

    Lindsay_W Well-Known Member

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    If it sounds too good to be true....

    This is from their website
    "Opportunites on VentureCrowd are generally available to wholesale sophisticated investors, meaning individuals who have a gross income of at least $250,000 per annum over the last two financial years, or have net assets of at least $2.5 million."
     
  3. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    If the $18m comes from the bank and includes interest then they don't get a share of the profit.

    However I find those sums very vague with not enough information to say what is going on.
     
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  4. Lindsay_W

    Lindsay_W Well-Known Member

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    Construction supposed to have commenced October 2019 - has it even started?
     
  5. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    haha so they are asking for money, and yet they are giving qualifiying critera!

    oh well, I guess the $7m I was going to offer isnt good enough
     
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  6. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    actually sounds almost illegal , if they're doing crowd funding and they're saying it's for sophisticated investors ...

    Cliff
     
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  7. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    $7M from investors, the rest from loans.

    The Y-man
     
  8. Beano

    Beano Well-Known Member

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    It's strange it refers to a average gross yield of 5 6% but does not refer to what their units will yield for.
     
  9. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    Dont understand the balance sheet. If equity is 7 and total cost is 25-27, how is debt to equity ratio only 60%. And what is peak debt exposure?

    1.1% entry fee plus management fee.

    Property development has risks obviously. About 15% projected profit, 70% lvr on cost. This is why successful developers are rich because of all the leverage. But there are a lot of bankrupt developers too.
     
  10. Olsen

    Olsen New Member

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    Their calculation is that the profit is 4, and the equity (how much you pay) is 7, so 60%=4/7
     
  11. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    no, thats ROI. Debt to equity ratio should be about 250%.

    Never heard of a ratio called peak debt exposure. Anyone?

    Seen enough financial statements to know there is a lot missing here.

    They say 26 month construction. Assume everything takes 2.5-3 years. ROI is about 20-24% a year.
     
    Last edited: 11th Jan, 2020
  12. lixas4

    lixas4 Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot_20200111-211828_Drive.jpg Peak debt exposure definition taken from estate master handbook.
     
  13. lixas4

    lixas4 Well-Known Member

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    Its used to calculate the LVR

    Screenshot_20200111-212535_Drive.jpg
     
  14. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm reading it as total cost will be ~$27m but it won't all happen at once, so the loan needs to only be at ~$11m at any one time?

    The Y-man
     
  15. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    Dont understand that either. Until it is sold the loans cannot be repaid.
     
  16. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    @Olsen

    We've put money into a build of a commercial project ~ been quite good for us.

    Original unit price $1
    Over the past five years, we have got 7.75 cents per unit distribution (so almost 40 cents cents so far)
    and the units are currently worth $1.40

    So if the property was sold now, technically we get 80 cents for every $1.00 invested = 80% return

    ...and it had a PDS so no need to have $2.5m net asset (min investment $10k)

    Cromwell Property Trust 12 - Cromwell Australia

    The Y-man
     
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  17. Olsen

    Olsen New Member

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    A pretty successful one, but why 80 cents for every $1.00 give it is $1.4 now?
     
  18. Beano

    Beano Well-Known Member

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    I like the min 3.8% annual increases :)
     
  19. Morgs

    Morgs Well-Known Member Business Member

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    To be honest $4m margin on $29m of sales isn't enough for my liking. Margin is too lean. Am I reading it right that there is only $350K contingency?

    Here is some information around why they may have gone down the direction of targetting "sophisticated investors"
    https://www.smh.com.au/money/invest...-sophisticated-investors-20150511-ggyopr.html
     
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  20. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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