Retrospective Granny Flat Approval - Will I be fined? Hornsby Council NSW

Seeking some help here guys, I did go through the forum but couldn’t find a similar q&a.

I have bought a bog multi level house 3 years ago in Hornsby council area. Given we didn’t need all the space we have done some alterations and separated one out of 3 levels to be self contained attached granny flat.

I wasn’t across the laws and regulations back then.

I am now in regret why I didn’t do it properly with approvals and want to fix the situation now and get it approved.

No one from council has contacted me so I am just trying to fix things voluntarily.

I have contacted few certifiers and some of them told me if I go to council now there can be some hefty penalties.

Is that right? Even if I go there myself (self confess/declaration) without any complain etc from neighbours or anyone?

The alterations made are:

1. adding a second kitchen
2. Adding a shower (where previously there was laundry/toilet) was converted to full bathroom
3. Blocking internal stairs (The self contained unit now has access from the side of the property)

The certifier advised my better alternative is to tear down part of the changes for example cooking part of the kitchen and open internal stairs again and then apply for DA for the same set up.
As this would remove the risk of penalties.

I guess the question is should I ask for forgiveness or tear down the work and ask for permission?

I am really puzzled on what to do now and appreciate your help.

 

There are many unauthorised granny flats across Sydney which were basically ignored for many years by councils, however recently I have had several calls from people who have been issued notices or orders by council to rectify the situation (either seek approval or demolish are the usual options, followed by fines if you don't comply).

If you go to council I do not think they would fine you. I work in the Hornsby council LGA a lot and my opinon is that they would only issue an Order and not a fine (but no guarantee I also know however that the budget within Hornsby council to track down illegal works has been increased recently........

It can be an expensive process to get "retrospective approval", the correct term is continued use approval, and some people may choose to follow the "tear down part of the changes" so this is good advice from the certifier. The reason they can not help now is that they have no authority to approve it now, any retro approval must be a DA. Since this is an attached GF then fire separation will be a big issue unless you have already addressed that in the reno.

 

Good question @James2321 and good answer @Anthony416.
Appreciated reading both Q and A.

 

Thanks Anthony for great and comprehensive reply.
Really appreciate it, can I ask few more questions:

1. Would you be able to help me understand how much cost would be involved if I go down the pass of “Continued used approval”?

2. is that the one that allows it for 7 years? (I read that on another post thread)

3. if at all they decide to fine (in the continued use pass) is there a formula to estimate how much possible fines would be?

4. Also is there a possibility that if I go in and declare myself they fine me and then also ask to demolish?

Just trying to assess which pathway is better, which one would be better in your opinion?

Really appreciate your help

 

Hi James, will try and answer as below, all comments are IMHO

Thanks Anthony for great and comprehensive reply.
Really appreciate it, can I ask few more questions:

1. Would you be able to help me understand how much cost would be involved if I go down the pass of “Continued used approval”?

This is a very difficult question to answer, the scope of changes needed to get approved under the building code of Australia will need a BCA report. Once that is done then you can get a builder quote to understand that aspect of the cost. Town planning fees, council application fees and consultant reports, plus new survey.....add say $6k - $10k (guestimation only) on top of the building mod costs.

2) is that the one that allows it for 7 years? (I read that on another post thread).

The 7 year one is for a Building Certificate only which just keeps council from taking action for that period of time, after that no guarantee. If you go the DA route, as described above, then if it is approved you have it forever.

3. if at all they decide to fine (in the continued use pass) is there a formula to estimate how much possible fines would be?

In my opinion, if contnued use is approved then no fine would be issued. You could call council, without mentioning your address, and ask what the current procedures/policy is?

4. Also is there a possibility that if I go in and declare myself they fine me and then also ask to demolish?

As above, I don't think a fine but definately once it is known they have to follow to a conclusion one way or another.

Just trying to assess which pathway is better, which one would be better in your opinion?

I guess this really comes down to your budget. The DA continued use approval can be a bit costly, with a few hoops to jump through and can take time.

The alternate route of taking out some of the fittings etc, as you mentioned in your previous post, has advantages in that then it may fall back under the authority of the private certfiers and you can start the project again with them which usually is a bit quicker and may save some money as well.

 

Something I wonder when I see threads like this - if you can legally rent a room or part of a house - what's the difference with an unapproved granny?

 

It’s the ‘unapproved’ part. And insurance not covering it, among other things.

 

Single entity vs multiple entity is my guess.

If you are trying to operate two separate leases then you would need fire separation so each dwelling can be insured separately.

 

Thank a lot

 

almost all normal houses have more than one entry door, so multiple entries for you.

Council will have issues if
1. neighbour complain that you are running a boarding house.
2. if you officially rent out the "granny flat" as separate accommodation, via an agent.

certifiers will tell you by the book, and of course they want your business.

the issue is if you have a 3 level home, and you try to turn the ground floor level to an official granny flat, it could be hard to be done officially.

However,

1. Kitchen,
However there are heaps of houses with two kitchens, a kitchen is just a stove plus a lot of cabinets, there is no restriction of installing cabinets in your home. so if the stove disappear you don't have a second kitchen.
the rangehood is just a ventilation fan. I am sure you can install one for ventilation.

2. Bathroom,
this one council is a bit easier on, because there are million of houses with >2 bathrooms and they are fine, try to ask council how to add a second bathroom.

3. Sairs - just unblock it.

a friend added a second kitchen and bathroom on the ground floor without trouble via council because they have a grandma there, which is a disable permit holder - because of her knee. Council approved second kitchen and bathroom for compassionate grounds.

 

Following with interest as I'm eyeing off a similar setup. If the different zones are all under the same original roofline and internal access is technically maintained with interconnecting stairs and doorways, maybe "secondary dwelling" approval isn't necessary to lease the zones independently?

Perhaps it requires a change of use with council to be approved as a boarding house for letting purposes? One thing's for sure.. the red tape is monstrous.

 

Thank you very much
Th

thank you very much

this is good advice

I will most likely go down the path of removing part of the changes and then ask for approval.

another challenge I have for getting a granny flat status approved is the space downstairs is more than 60 meters.