Reticent PM + Unsure about preferred tradie

Hi Community

Got an IP (in Tassie) earlier this year, did my research and picked a PM.

Not long after signing them up, there was a PM switch and I'm not a fan of the new PM.

The latest incident - a couple weeks ago, PM sends me an email saying the hot water system wasn't heating properly the previous day, and as it's an essential service she immediately got their preferred plumber and electrician to install a new system. She didn't attempt contacting me.

Attached to the email was an all-in-one invoice for $1375 for 160L Rinnai 2.4kW hot water system "supply and install". I was also charged $165 for the electrician to disconnect and reconnect.

- I asked for a purchase receipt, PM said "plumber's invoice is proof of purchase".
- I googled Rinnai 160L 2.4kW systems, they're available for sub-$700
- I asked for an itemised invoice, no reply. I haven't paid as yet.

I'm concerned I'm being taken for a ride. What does installation of a hot water system normally cost? And do I have the right to insist on proof of purchase for warranty purposes, or is that not a thing?

How would you proceed in this situation? Any thoughts appreciated.

 

That's about right. Materials anywhere from $700-$1,300 for a new system, plumbers hourly rate at least $95/hr + call out fee, same for electrician. In Qld under the Act, the Tenant can actually organise repairs & maintenance for essential services and that is the last thing you want to happen because they have even less regard for price. Check your appointment to act re: expenditure (usually 1 weeks rent +gst without approval) but also check the PM Office's policies & procedures for handling essential service maintenance. The pointy end of the stick for example, if a PM can't get a hold of the Lessor for approval, and the Tenants have endured for a reasonable time, which could only need be 1 day without hot water, could have very good grounds to tear up their lease and vacate and a tribunal would probably not award the Lessor any compensation, alternatively delay in repairs could result in rent being abated if the Tenant pushed the matter and it was seen the Lessor was not attending to repairs in a timely manner. If you're concerned about the price of the work, I'd personally rate it as ok (middle ground). If you're concerned about not being contacted and all this happened in less than say a 6hr window, that would be a valid concern. If the PM office is half decent they will have tried to call, txt, email, left voice mail with you, meanwhile also tried to 'manage' the tenant and delay for as long as possible waiting for your approval, but there comes a time where if that approval doesn't come they draw the line and make the decision to go ahead with the work.

 

The prices you were looking at were they for immediate pickup or online, as a guess I would have thought you would pay a premium for everthing in Tassie, as most would come ex Melb and you cant drive straight there, its got to be loaded on another ship then unloaded again.
Labour costs can vary depending if its fitted outside or inside with limited space ,more often or not they are not the exact size, and you require a sparky and a plumber.
Then add an extra cost for the tradies to drop what they were doing and fit a new hot water system.
They generally dont just stand around waiting for a job to come in.
We had one fitted quite a few years ago in regional NSW although it was a 250lt unit, but I think it cost around $1500 ? fitted and removal of old one.

 

Thanks for the replies!

Pricing: Sounds like you're both in agreement the price isn't a concern, so that's a relief. Note to Michael - the sub-$700 prices I found online included delivery to Tas.

Proof of purchase: Is this not something I should be asking for? What happens if the product dies in a year? Also they aren't giving me a breakdown of the $1375, but if it's normal for an urgent installation to cost ~$700, I guess it's fine.

Still concerned about the PM's ongoing issue with communication (or lack thereof), so I'm looking at appointing someone else.

 

You should definitely receive either a tax invoice/receipt from where the contractor purchased the new HWS as your POP for warranty purposes, or, the contractor takes that burden on and their tax invoice/receipt becomes your POP and they are now the warranty supplier under consumer law. Is this the only issue re: communication concerns?

 

Quote..
Attached to the email was an all-in-one invoice for $1375 for 160L Rinnai 2.4kW hot water system "supply and install". I was also charged $165 for the electrician to disconnect and reconnect.

I think that is a good price,was the breakdown during the week-or weekend.Be carefull not paying the bill ,all they will do is take the amount of your rental income ..

 

At least it didn't happen to you on a National Holiday like it did to me. I paid 1600-1700 in the end (can't quite remember). As for the PM, they were correct in this situation (although not sure how they communicated this exactly with you). When mine happened, they emailed me immediately and just said unfortunately this is the situation (No call as overseas). That's why I always budget 2,500 per place extra per year. BTW, if you haven't got faith in your PM, then change. Mine is awesome and I'd never swap even if cheaper. So anybody looking for a PM on the Goldie, let me know.

 

For a broken HWS you really just need to get fixed , repaired or fit a new one .
Expecting a tenant to go 3 or 4 days without hot water in Tassie at the end of winter because you are trying to source a cheaper one from the mainland is just ridiculous.
In many cases the plumber will go straight out to the premises ,look at the job then go down to Bunnings or tradelink , pick up the new unit and fit it in a few hours .
Job Done.
I dont think you are doing yourself any favours by not paying the bill and there are probably a few ways to get the invoice.

 

Price, as noted above, seems reasonable.

I'd be pretty p*ssed if my PM hadn't tried to call me at least, just emailing AFTER the fact is poor form IMO.

 

2, or 3 things....

Ask PM always to contact.......

What was the problem with the other HWS ?

If the tank was no good due to bursting etc, then that price looks ok too me.

The problem is, a lot of PMs, especially if they are clueless in regard to maintenance things, could send you backwards at 100mph

 

Price looks fine if new unit was needed. Proof of purchase or itemised invoice isnt needed.

Hard to tell if new unit was needed based on info provided. Be wary of agencies who have their own maintenance team.

Part of the fun of owning property is that expenses came with it. Hot water systems, air cond units are all expensive to fix and have limited lifespans.

 

Made payment today.

I understand this completely, I've no intention of making someone freeze to save a few $. My original post was just to a) check if I'd been overcharged, and b) to see if anyone has had similar experiences re. payment invoice with no cost breakdown whatsoever, and no purchase receipt.

On the day, the old hot water system was producing lukewarm water.

PM didn't tell me the tradie's invoice could be used as proof of purchase. How would this even work, considering the invoice doesn't specify any details of the unit? My original post is a bit misleading - the invoice didn't mention "160L Rinnai 2.4kW hot water system"; I dragged that info out of them via several emails.
Anyway short answer to your question is - No, this is just the latest incident with incomplete information / certain questions being competely ignored, etc. For the record, I'm very reasonable with my other PMs when they raise issues - I usually just agree with their suggested course of action. This is the first time I'm experiencing a lack of faith in my PM. I'm being paid on time so no complaints there - but I actually dread reading unexpected emails from this PM because I know my BP will go up dealing with it :-/

 

That is not a reason to replace the whole HWS


Hot water is pretty basic.

I know the age of each HWS on each IP, I also have multiple tanks ready to go, if the system did need replacing, the price you paid is fine, so do not sweat that part.

What you need to work out, is how the PM and trades handle things, i.e if it was 5 year old tank and PM asked trade to replace and trade replaced, then all of them are no good. Taking you for a ride.

This is all you need to know, if they are being dishonest, incompetent, or competent, PM is not your friend, so you do not have to like them, but they must have your interests as first priority, it is a balancing act, but there are hoards who really do not care or are totally ignorant.

 

I'm not convinced this is the case here. Maybe I've been extra-lucky with my other PMs, but I'm now on the lookout for another PM in Tassie anyway.

On that note - Can I simply get a new PM and tell the current agency I'm moving for various reasons? Or is it more complicated than that?

 

When you find a new PM, they will handle most of it, just look through your contract, or show the new prospective PM so they can tell you what the likely flow will be.....many do all sorts of things when they know you want to change.....is amazing how childish some can become or downright malicious in some cases.

 

Dear Andre,
refer to your original signed Management agency agreement document.

There may be a termination clause written in there.
I hope this helps

 

Yep, and no reason required, you just "do".

 

I would expect a PM even in my home town to have run the lever at the top herself or at least instructed the tenant to do so before calling a plumber. That is often all that is required and should be in one of the clauses on the tenant's lease - similar to changing regular light bulbs, mowing the lawn and maintaining the smoke alarms.

On the bright side, with a vague invoice you can depreciate the entire amount rather than just the purchase price

I would be furious if she made no attempt at all to contact me at the time.