Public opinion of property investors. (Tony Flemings 13 Properties at 28)

We must view things through very different prisms when considering levels of wonder! That may be because my portfolio - which is 15 properties vs 13 properties ( now 14 apparently) and worth 7.5 Million + vs 2.7 Million + , generates over 330K tax free NET (not GROSS) per annum vs 20K NET per annum . So you'll have to forgive me but I think 20K NET per annum generated off 1.4 Million debt is not particularly impressive.

Your mate needs to talk to me about how just a couple of NRAS properties, each making 10K CF+ per annum , can have his 330K mortgage paid off within @11 years , and how he can then go on to have many many INV properties himself , and really be mortgage free with a passive income for life

The numbers do not lie. See below. Take the tax free 10K per year x 2 , which is $1666 per month, and apply it as extra repayments to a 330K P&I loan of 4% for the next 10 years, and here's what happens .

# mortgage.gone.
# 150K CGT FREE interest saved.








Now what Tony has done is great. My point was, and remains - the numbers were presented as being far more impressive than what they actually are when appropriate NET scrutiny is applied. Novice investors reading the article will believe they can easily replicate that and be set for life. Thats just not accurate. So while Tony is absolutely to be commended for what he has done, anyone thinking 20K passive income will feed them is nuts, especially when just 1 or 2 rate rises or a few properties being vacant simultaneously for 4-8 weeks, or some large repairs or maintence issues, a combination of any of the above, will eat that 20K quick smart.

In 10 years or so, when the rental inflation has done its thing, he will be enjoying a good passive income. But now - no.

 

Just because you have done better than someone else doesn't give you a licence to say someone didn't do well.

I don't find your comments impressive or constructive. When you say he should have bought NRAS instead of investment properties you sound like a spammer to me.

Or not. NRAS is not the panacea to solve all the worlds financial problems.

 

@Tony Fleming you're an inspiration. Stay on track and keep doing the right thing by yourself and others. Win-win.

 

• Net yields from both the portfolios can easily be worked out to normalize the discussion.
  
• The views put forward by @euro73 were in a much more sober and relevant (property) forum as compared to original subject matter which has all the hallmarks of spruiking a new business.

• On the contrary, the arguments based on cold hard numbers are very constructive to separate the rubbery advertorial from facts. Much more convincing and helpful than selfie-prone narcissistic 'mindset' brigade.
  
• Care to justify why talking about NRAS is a spam.

Nowhere was it claimed that NRAS is the panacea. However given the context, numbers and graphs it might be a brilliant strategy.

 

Many portfolios can be compared. I don't find "my portfolio is better than your portfolio" discussions interesting or constructive. Net yields is not the only measure of the performance of a portfolio.

I saw a lot of assumptions, then conclusions based on those assumptions, not "cold hard numbers". The criticism looked only at cashflow, not equity or LVR. I find that analysis to be narrow in focus and not convincing.

That is not what I stated. I was responding to a specific comment:-

"You can generate 20K tax free with just 2 or 3 NRAS properties, or 2 or 3 dual occ properties. Better yet, 100K less (1.3 Million) in debt could have been deployed into 5 of the 260K Port Macquarie 1 bed NRAS approved apartments where my clients just settled , and they generate 11K each tax free , so 55K tax free per annum."​

This reads like spam to me. With these types of posts, NRAS is all upside and no downsides. What are the downsides and what are the risks? After all, in the words of @euro73

"Nothing wrong with any of that - we are all capitalists But none the less... we should be sure we know exactly what we are being sold."​

It might be or it might not be. More information is needed. Strategies need to consider goals, available income and appetite for risk. @euro73 has done well through NRAS. Does that mean everyone should invest in NRAS? No. That is all.

 

Yes indeed. The key risk here is at expiry of NRAS (10yrs). Whilst the numbers stack up, they have a shelf life of 10 yrs versus a portfolio that is CF+ enduringly. That means that within those 10yrs you need to carefully consider how the passive income is used to grow equity & generate CF beyond year 10. If you use the NRAS cashflow to replace your J.O.B. income then you are relying on CG to get you past the 10 yr mark.

NRAS can play an excellent role within a portfolio but it's not as simple as 1 NRAS IP = 11k /yr......... not enduringly anyway.

 

You need to reinvest the surpluses from NRAS. That is the key. Dividend Reinvestment. Year in. Year Out.

 

Where has the phrase "my portfolio is better than your portfolio" been used ? Maybe a wrong inference.

• The assumptions and the basis was provided.
• Equity and LVR were also provided.
• Now compare the analysis to original advertorial. Which one is more convincing ?

• Please reread your quote below. Looks like context has shifted.
  
• @euro73 has been more than magnanimous and forthcoming in sharing his expertise in NRAS. Maybe if downsides and risks were queried...

• True, but this a forum and opinions are not financial advise. He did the best he could with the available limited and sketchy information.
• I doubt anyone here considers "goals, available income and appetite for risk" before posting. Any particular reason to hold NRAS to a higher standard ?

He has nowhere implied that everyone should invest in NRAS. It is bit of a stretch to say that a situational response implies universal applicability.

 

Yeah, sorry, my mistake. What is missing is amount invested.

Neither.

 

Slight correction there. When men compare things to other men, we like it when things are bigger.

 

can you elaborate on this

 

Hi Euro. Would you plz take a look at my financials and tell everyone reading this just how amazing our portfolio would be if we buy a handful of your NRAS (the last ever) or DO properties. I am always looking for a way forward.

 

I guess the title stating 13 properties is a bit stunning to most, as the general population may probably instantly be thinking median valued properties in capital cities.
Some small time property investors may have the same figures with just 2 or 3 well located properties.
If equity position was listed rather than double digit property titles, then the story, even though a good effort, becomes much less impressive than what it makes out to be.
Headline got attention.

 

That motorcycle looks like it will move you forward, well enough.

 

exactly my point. Like I said earlier, I'm not being a hater, but I think the article is over hyped, and the $130k gross income over 13 properties with some percentage of gearing is actually nothing to write home about... but as everyone else has mentioned, I too salute Tony and he does deserve acalades for building a portfolio at such a young age!

 

Unfortunately that's the effect of the anonymous Internet - even the worthiest articles (on non property investing topics) have the most horrific comments by people.

 

Great work Tony - it's been interesting to watch you build your portfolio over time.

In terms of public perception, I think it all comes down to you as an individual. Run your own race, achieve your own goals - comparing with others doesn't do anything other than create **** for one party and feeling down for the other.

We're all in this game to build a better lives for ourselves, our families and others. Do what gets you to where you want and need to be - not what makes people on internet comment sections and forums happy.

 

Given the right 'mindset' and effort (if the rider squeezes the temples and squints), it does not even need fuel.

Anyone questioning the fundamentals of fuel-less vehicle is an envious green gremlin...Carol Dweck said so.

 

@Tony Fleming big props to you mate! Embrace the haters. Just keep moving forward.

See you at the next meetup

 

I think what @Tony Fleming has achieved is fantastic and definitely impressive. How many people could say they have over a $1million in equity and managed to generate $20-30k of passive income (by the age of 30) by working as a pizza delivery driver. Tony himself has said it was a low paying job.

Not everyone on PC is earning $100k+ on their day jobs....yes of course it should be easier for someone earning say $150k a year to have a better equity position and cash flow.

If I was Tony I wouldnt listen to the people on this thread spruiking their own products or the people calling themselves 'skilled'. Keep on doing what your doing Tony because it's obviously worked for you and suits your personal goals.