Property chat election time!

That post of mine was overflowing in sarcasm - couldn’t you feel it, smell it, taste it, ...

I am also a swing voter.

I am all for opposition parties putting forward big plans/ideas/policies BUT they have to be the right ones.

What the Australian voters were telling the ALP last Saturday is that the ones they put to the electorate were the wrong ones and go away/come back with the right ones.

I feel the ALP and many of its members haven’t got the message yet.

 

'The Right ones' for whom ...

 

Australia

You do understand that more than one million Australians voted for the Coalition than Labor?

Even on a two party preferred basis, 625,000 more Australians voted for the Coalition than the ALP.

 

Most voters aren't looking out for Australia or their fellow citizens...they look out for themselves.

You know that not how it works in our system of government, so why bring up irrelevant information.

 

Says you?

Maybe we should do away with elections and let you determine policies for all Australians?

Or maybe only people who vote ALP and Greens should have the right to vote?

That would be democracy in action!!!
​

 

I'm not sure I follow. You said

Then as evidence posted an article about refund of excess franking credits.

But in the article you posted to states very clearly:

"Labor's proposal, announced in mid-March 2018, was to return the divided imputation system to where it had been before Howard changed it in 2001, and to where it still is elsewhere. Tax credits could be used to eliminate a tax payment but not to turn it negative."

So retirees can still use franking credits wipe out a tax debt, reducing the tax rate to effectively zero for retirees. So, the "solution" to the "problem" doesn't actually fix what you are complaining about. There's that.

Then you keep blaming the Liberals for breaking the system but actually, Labor voted for the refund of excess franking credits too. I did post this before but it's worth repeating. Unless I have it mixed up and you actually blame Labor just as much for this "issue".

In any case, I hope Labor have another crack at this at the next election.

 

I've been contemplating how we have inadvertently developed an attitude in some sections of our society of an apparent dependence on a tax refund in order to meet their living expenses. I find that rather odd.

 

I think that attitude is prevalent across all sections of our society.

Many people I know, young and old, get their tax returns in during July and (im)patiently wait for the refund to hit their bank account so they can pay bills.

It has been like that for decades.

I was like that 40 years ago. Not now though. Just got my FY18 tax returns in earlier this month (have been doing this for years) and the refund money is still my account.

 

Refund.

 

Fair enough. I've never really had any deep interest in other people's financial structures but reading the stories about requiring the refund of excess franking credits to put food on the table or fill the car with petrol was interesting. I suppose it's a case of each to their own. In the past if I didn't have the funds I went without. It did happen once or twice.

 

@Lizzie, I see you are very passionate about the environment and protecting the planet from climate change. I have also read that your husband will be retiring soon. How long ago did you start to feel passionate about closing down the coal mines and coal-fired electricity production in the Hunter? What booming alternate industries should all these retrenched workers move into, particularly the older ones who wont look the part as hipster baristas?

 

Very passionate - and, having been on the land my entire life (except a sojourn living in the city) climate changes in the last 5-10 years have made very aware of what is happening. Moreso in the last 5-7 years as the inaction on available alternatives - both in fuel/electricity and farming methods - has made me rather vocal and politically motivated.

As for alternative jobs? I am also a believer that, in our lifetime, there will simply not be enough "jobs" for everyone due to automation. Even in mining today, automation is taking off - the huge dump trucks in many mines now work driverless on GPS, the processing plants are all automated with the guys now sitting behind a control panel - and will quickly become like the car manufacturing plants in America, that used to employee 3,000 line workers - but now barely employee 30 computer technicians and a few repair guys. This is not necessarily a bad thing. I feel we will have to move towards a guaranteed basic income and 3 days working week ... refer Utopia for Realists, Rutger Bregman ... which frees up the mundane and misery of merely working for the paycheck, and allow exploration of what people "want to" achieve.

As for industries - it's a hard one because automation has removed so many job options already. Pity the government poured all that wasted money into car manufacturing, for vehicles that no one wanted, instead of developing automation technology and creating transport/infrastructure that people actually wanted ... pity the government poured so much into an already obsolete NBN instead of research into innovative technologies and development ...

I don't have a crystal ball, so don't know the definitive answers - but I do know that the status quo is a dying system. Only have to look at the US - manufacturing has come back to the US in a big way, since 2000, but the jobs haven't returned

 

It may not necessarily be needed to meet their essential living expenses in many cases but it can mean the difference between a very merge lifestyle vs a meal out occasionally, a holiday or presents for the grand kids etc.

My best mate and his wife despite trying very hard to get permanent work are generally reliant on casual work. They get no Gov’t benefits choosing to take any work they can which is often shift work and never knowing how long the work is there for. Just like the retiree looking forward to their annual franking credit refund to cover things like house / car repairs, a break away etc my mate and his wife eagerly do so as well.

My sister is an aged pensioner. She has a small amount of Tabcorp shares. She always looks forward to the franking credit refund each year combined with savings to put toward something she can’t afford from the pension alone such as a new computer.

When a tax policy has been in place for much of the last two decades it’s not unexpected that those who receive it become more dependent on it.

Negative gearing is similar in that many wait till tax time to get a tax deduction on the losses. They can of course complete a form to reduce their tax throughout the year but many prefer to get the refund at tax time so it doesn’t just get lost amongst everyday expenditure.

I wouldn’t like to and fortunately don’t depend on tax refunds but we’re very well off retirees. Unfortunately the vast majority of retirees even including those that are self funded are not so fortunate.

In summary I suppose what I’m getting at is that there are many out there who rely on their annual tax refund to make a difference to their lives.

 

Yeah I get that @Nodrog. Quite understandable too. My Dad was in a similar position to a number with being on the age pension and having a few very small investments. Just never got the feeling he considered he wasn't able to get a lot done unless he got a tax refund. A different attitude I guess.

It's an interesting subject and I'm not leveling any criticism. Only considering it as another absorbing aspect of people.

 

Ah yes. This attitude of “you don’t know what’s good for you or the country, let me tell you!” let down Labor.

And in the post-election bleating in the comments sections of left wing sites, you still see so many complaining that they “voted against their interests”. They learned nothing.

This high and mighty attitude sunk Labor. Their supporters have no idea how it comes across. Long may it continue!

 

Not true
U.S. enjoys best manufacturing jobs growth of the last 30 years

 

Did you look past the headline? Even the charts in the article tell a very different tale - yes some are returning, but nowhere near as many as left 20 years earlier ... and now Ford are looking at laying off around 2-3,000

Anyhow - back on topic - automation is the future

 

I did, its early days... but its turning around

Manufacturing jobs are defying expectations

 

... and - as a percentage of the employment total, is significantly less