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Phase 1 power - upgrade?

Discussion in 'Development' started by SaberX, 29th Sep, 2015.

  1. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    So I'm pretty hands on when it comes to reading up and learning for my new build, but I'm stumped on the whole phase 1 power versus phase 3 etc.

    The builder comes default phase 1, and I'm confused if and whether I need phase 3(or 2??) ppower for a new home build? I mean it'll be a rental property, thinking ducted reverse cycle air conditioning up front (even if just ducted air cond or split systems does this make a difference)?

    Can anyone shed some light? Or is phase 2/phase 3 power something rare/needed for pools, which I don't plan to have in an IP?

    Posed the question to ambience airconditioning in response to their quote and all I got told was needed by them at the time of my build was if I could do a 1200 x 600 concrete slab pour for the air cond unit. Otherwise no specific power or plumbing needs? A quick google seems to indicate phase 3 power being required for air conditioning, so now I'm confused? Can anyone shed some light please?
     
  2. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    3 phase is for equipment that uses a lot of current Eg welding. Most houses just have single phase 240v. 3 phase is 415.
    Unless you have some big gear going in or big air con unit planned you might need 3 phase.
    Majority of houses have single phase, unless you have a work shop or some thing going on where you need extra power. The main thing is blokes welding
    For an ip single is all you need.
     
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  3. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Yes no and maybe - it depends upon your ac unit - if you are going fully ducted, then you'll require 3 phase otherwise single phase will do.

    You will need to get the specs of the AC unit to confirm whether it is single or 3 phase.

    Mains will need to be upgraded to 3 phase cabling from the power pole to the board, 3 phase service breakers etc.

    Getting technical - if you go with 3 phase then you will want the spark to balance your loads across the phases.
     
  4. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm probably going a 10-12 kw style ducted. If i don't know, and if I can't find out prior to prestart tomorrow - what's the easiest/safest route: Go phase 1 power?

    I assume it isn't cheap to upgrade to phase 3 power at pre-start , is it even possible to go phase 3 later on if required?

    Otherwise will they modify the model of the air cond to suit phase 1 , or not negotiable?
     
  5. rhinsor

    rhinsor Well-Known Member

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    3 phase for that size aircon unit.
    It will be cheaper to get it done while building then changing it after.
     
  6. Vicki S

    Vicki S Active Member

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    I just upgraded from 50 amps to 3 phase. Upgrading was necessary, but I had to choose single amps 100 amps or 3 phase. By the time you had 14.5 kW air con, induction cooktop, etc we were close to the limit on 100 amps and went 3 phase. Gives us options for a granny flat or pool /spa if we want later. Cost was not much more to go 3 phase, just the cabling. We already had to upgrade the board as it was very 60s original
     
  7. Natedog

    Natedog Well-Known Member

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    If you are ping through a builder you will probably be charged approx $1300 for the upgrade to 3 phase. Or most will include the upgrade in the cost of a full house refrigerated cooling system.
     
  8. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    3 phase - if the builder has proced for the ac they should also have allowed to upgrade power based on the selection of the ac unit.
     
  9. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Its strange as my brother didnt upgrade his nor did the air cond guy say so when i asked? I don't know if he's oblivious, surely not if that's your livelihood. I mean its an IP eventually so if i can save $1,300 on sticking with phase 1 power that would be my pref. I assume one just jumps to phase 3 power not 2 for these things?? And phase 2 is for something more specific??

    Is it alot more exp to convert over to phase 3 after handover?
     
  10. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    Yes, an air cond ducted reverse cycle was an upgrade option but i took the free flooring throughout and stone top... Maybe i shouldve gone the laminate in the end!
     
  11. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Our sparkie told us several years ago when we added a split system (large one) into an old cottage that he thought about upgrading the power. He didn't do that and said if the air-con was turned on whilst other appliances were using a lot of power at the same time, the extra load might trip the power. If that happened a few times, he would quote to upgrade it.

    It has never happened, so we've never had to upgrade. I'm fairly sure we don't have 3 phase in our own house and we have a pool, air-con.

    However, if it is cheaper to upgrade at this early stage rather than later, and if your sparkie thinks it is warranted, then why not do it now?
     
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  12. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    If it is an average sized house with average air con you won't need it, but if your building a huge house with big ducted system it would be worth while.
    Sparky will work it out. It may just mean an extra circuit out two
     
  13. Rixter

    Rixter Well-Known Member

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    For a domestic electrical installation, the only time you would need 3 phase connection to the house from the street is if you have 3 phase appliances/tools installed. ie HWS, stove, bore pump, welder, A/C etc. Check your appliance electrical specs to find out... depending upon which state in Australia single phase is 240-250volt and three phase is 415-440volt.

    I hope this helps.
     
  14. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Rixter. Pre-start lady also said phase 1 was required and phase 3 for the pool etc. Never will be a pool in the backyard so no issues there, so I assume a 14kw ducted reverse cycle will get away with just average household (4x 2) appliance usage.... only a single storey too around 238sqm inclusive of garage, so don't think anyhting too big?

    Hopefully I haven't got it wrong! Same for those (air conditioning guy and prestart lady) advising me...
     
  15. Hanison

    Hanison Well-Known Member

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    The correct answer is when your maximum demand calculation ( total building load ) is 70 amps or above.

    You can get a/c units upto around 16kw that use single phase.

    It's the engineers responsibility to provide these details.

    Max demand isn't as simple as adding everything together to get a end total. There are various factors that come into account.

    Your electrical contractor is capable of working this out for you aswell.
     
  16. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Don't quibble over $1k power upgrade to 3 phase.

    3 phase motors are more efficient than larger single phase equivalents hence lower running costs.
     
    Last edited: 1st Oct, 2015
  17. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    I was told upgrade to 3 phase power was more expensive to run in the longer term on a day to day basis over single phase?

    If they say i don't need it for a 12,13 kw reverse cycle with th eeveryday applicances in the house than I should be able to get through saving the money without any large change in circumstances i.e. a massive man shed with welding tools and other high electricity usage items?
     
  18. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Have you not read the thread?