LIC & LIT Listed Investment Companies - Fundamental Analysis

Discussion in 'Shares & Funds' started by jhmtaylor, 11th Sep, 2016.

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  1. Serah

    Serah Well-Known Member

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    Great austing. Thanks!
     
    Serah, 4th Jul, 2017
    #101
  2. pwt

    pwt Well-Known Member

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    Hi @jhmtaylor , I have PM you as well. Would appreciate access to your blog. Thank you.
     
    pwt, 4th Jul, 2017
    #102
  3. pwt

    pwt Well-Known Member

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    @jhmtaylor , thanks for the invite. I got into your blog and saw one of your recent analysis. Thought I post the question here as maybe some others might find it interesting.

    Why/how did the industry super generated much better returns over the last 10 years than Australian bank super funds? The returns are almost doubled!
     
    pwt, 4th Jul, 2017
    #103
  4. John Ferguson

    John Ferguson Well-Known Member

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    Great Effort!

    I find this report useful
     

    Attached Files:

    John Ferguson, 5th Jul, 2017
    #104
  5. money_penny

    money_penny Member

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    @jhmtaylor, thanks for taking the time to write these. I'm new to share investing and this information about what to look for and why is really helpful.
     
    money_penny, 5th Jul, 2017
    #105
  6. jhmtaylor

    jhmtaylor Well-Known Member

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    The short answer is fees on fees on fees. The bank receives a fee for placing the investment with the life insurance company. The life insurance company also owned by the bank charge fees for managing the investment, the life insurance company place the funds with an investment manager (also owned by the bank). It is also a very cheap source of funds for the bank. The poor bloody punter does not stand a chance of getting a satisfactory return.
     
    jhmtaylor, 6th Jul, 2017
    #106
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  7. pwt

    pwt Well-Known Member

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    Agree, I am on a bank super for way too long. After reading about super on PC and checking the fees I am paying, I am changing my super now. Should have done it years ago but better late than never
     
    pwt, 6th Jul, 2017
    #107
  8. jhmtaylor

    jhmtaylor Well-Known Member

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    AustSuper, Hostplus and Cbus all have great performance. This is not an endorsement of Unions, just that the Superfunds they are associated with (not managed by, thank God) produce good results.
     
    jhmtaylor, 6th Jul, 2017
    #108
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  9. pwt

    pwt Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I was considering them before going for the smsf option. Their performance is pretty good.
     
    pwt, 6th Jul, 2017
    #109
  10. trinity168

    trinity168 Well-Known Member

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    @jhmtaylor - copy/pasting from your email




    If you are a follower of the PropertyChat forum can you let others know that analysis of LICs for 2017 are now staring to appear on this blog. Also feel free to copy and paste.

    Plan A - My expectation is that if I am using an investment manager (manager of LIC investments) I expect them to perform better than the index over the previous 5 year period. If they do not achieve this then they are not adding value to the relationship and I would not buy or keep the stock.

    Plan B - If the investment manager slightly under-performs the index over the previous 5 year period, but I can buy the stock at a sufficient discount to NTA to compensate for under-performance it could still provide value ("money in muck") and justify buying or keeping the stock.

    In the case of AFI.AX, the investment performance is erratic, overall performance less than satisfactory and it rarely sells at a meaningful discount to compensate for the under-performance. I do not own this stock and am not likely to buy it in the foreseeable future

    [​IMG]


    --
    Posted By James Taylor to Distilled LIC Fundamental Analysis on 8/08/2017 06:17:00 pm
     
    trinity168, 10th Aug, 2017
    #110
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  11. trinity168

    trinity168 Well-Known Member

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    @jhmtaylor

    Significant under performance over a long period of time. My view is that the investment managers mandate is not working and it can't be compensated for by buying at a discount to NTA because the discount required is too great. I used to own this stock but sold it and am please I did.

    I am going to avoid it.

    [​IMG]



    --
    Posted By James Taylor to Distilled LIC Fundamental Analysis on 8/09/2017 12:20:00 pm
     
    trinity168, 10th Aug, 2017
    #111
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  12. trinity168

    trinity168 Well-Known Member

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    trinity168, 10th Aug, 2017
    #112
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  13. Nlang

    Nlang Well-Known Member

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    Nlang, 10th Aug, 2017
    #113
  14. Redwing

    Redwing Well-Known Member

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    Redwing, 10th Aug, 2017
    #114
  15. trinity168

    trinity168 Well-Known Member

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    hi @Redwing - I've only reposted the above from @jhmtaylor's blog. I like LICs .. I like them a lot. I hold a handful of them ... would like to hold more. The more I hold, the more I want. The more I want ... the more I ... I think you get the picture :cool:
     
    trinity168, 10th Aug, 2017
    #115
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  16. sharon

    sharon Well-Known Member

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    Wow - @jhmtaylor you have just diss'd two of favorites!! :)
     
    sharon, 10th Aug, 2017
    #116
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  17. Anne11

    Anne11 Well-Known Member

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    Anne11, 10th Aug, 2017
    #117
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  18. Piston_Broke

    Piston_Broke Well-Known Member

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    Great thread, thanks for posting.

    Agree 100%, but it the rare manager that beats the index over long period.
    And instead of trying to play NTA I'd rather invest directly.

    Out of curiosity I just looked up a super fund (conservative fund) and found it's return to be 6.89% since 1990. Not as bad as I expected.
     
    Piston_Broke, 10th Aug, 2017
    #118
  19. IrishDigger

    IrishDigger Well-Known Member

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    Following Thread with interest.

    Cheers
     
    IrishDigger, 11th Aug, 2017
    #119
  20. trinity168

    trinity168 Well-Known Member

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    from @jhmtaylor's blog.

    WHF financial year is 31 March so a like for like comparison with other LICs is not possible.

    WHF's investment managers seem to be doing a reasonable job, particularly in recent years. When combined with the fact that you can usually buy WHF at a discount to NTA, most investors will find this one offers value for money.
    I own WHF stock and will add to my portfolio in periods of share price weakness.

    [​IMG]
    Link to file

    --
    Posted By James Taylor to Distilled LIC Fundamental Analysis on 8/11/2017 12:54:00 pm
     
    trinity168, 13th Aug, 2017
    #120
    Serah likes this.
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