Lease about to expire

My tenant agreement is about to end in a few weeks, I don't know whether they are re-leasing or moving yet. Do i give my notice to vacate now before the lease expires - i'm okay for them to stay but i don't want to be in a situation where they are no longer bounded by lease. Say the lease expires in two weeks time, and I need to give them 30days notice, what happens after the lease expires, are they in the periodic contract where i can't kick them out without 90 days of notice even though i have already served them with the 30 days?

 

With apologies in advance to @giraffez ....... Am I the only one who wonders why LL's who self-manage, do not know the Act that they operate their business under?

 

I take it you are managing the property yourself, rather than having a PM.

In short, the tenancy will default to a "month to month" agreement until action is taken either to sign up a new lease or vacate. The PM (which is you if self managing) should be right onto this.

 

Self managing is a huge PITA.

My understanding is the same as Ghoti's - they go onto a periodic lease rather than a fixed term lease if nothing is done.

Cheers

Jamie

 

Agree with the above.

If self-managing I strongly suggest reading the resources available online (in WA is DMIRS website), as well as the conditions that are written on the lease itself - there will be a lot of conditions on the lease that are standard practice and the notice will be part of such conditions.

If self-managing - my personal suggestion is not to send a vacate letter first- especially if you wish them to stay. A huge part of self-management is building a respectful relationship. Maybe make direct contact if this is the case. If only a couple of weeks to go - I would say they are intending to stay. Only you can determine if you are happy with a periodic lease.

If managed by a PM, I would make contact with them to ensure the tenants are getting the proper notice and you are not caught out.

Hoping you get the outcome you wish for - over here - that is the tenant to stay!

 

No its going through a PM. I know its expiring soon, the PM hasn't contacted me to do anything, from past experience they never do unless I contact them. So I want to know what my options are before I contact the PM

I want to know if i serve my notice to vacate (if they stall) will it still be covered after the lease expires provided I serve this before my lease is up?

 

Hi again giraffez,

I would suggest you should definitely be chatting to your PM - they should be guiding you on this, not you need to work it all out before you contact them (not a go at you at all - just the expectation I personally would have of the PM)

Hard to give you an answer - I cant as I don't know the rules over there. Again the lease itself should outline all of this and if the lease is expiring in a couple of weeks and you want them to stay - they should have already received a lease renewal from your PM.

EG - on a fixed term lease expiring, "x" weeks notice required by either party. On a periodic lease expiring "y" weeks notice required by either party.

You can call DMIRS or relevant body over there and they can advise. Again though I suggest getting onto PM immediately. Knowing and activating things right now is probably going to give you the most notice which I am thinking is what you are trying to achieve?

Also IF the PM tells you they have given notice already - make sure you ask for written proof. ( I know someone this has happened to - tenants gave due notice - PM didn't tell landlord nor made any effort to advertise)

Good luck with it all.

 

Dear Giraffez
So you and your PM agreed to a lease which expires in the middle of winter?
(Also known as highest vacancy period in the year....)
Can I suggest you sit down with your PM and consider the next time you come within 3 months of a lease expiry , you offer
1. New Lease, finishing at a time when there are low vacancies,
2.offer standing until 4 weeks before expiry.
3. Rent increase to market value.

use the statutory times for notice.


I hope this helps

 

Some info you may have missed on property chat over the past.

1. A couple of people have been left with massive bills since their insurance did not pay out or only paid out partially for extensive damage done by tenants on periodic lease. Check your LL insurance, or more easily just avoid periodic.

2. When lease comes to an end, the tenant can give you 2 weeks notice, and including time to get the ad up, time to get people to look at the place, and time between signing and actually move-in-date of new tenant, you are very likely to incur about 2-3 weeks vacancy (for avg properties that is around $1,000 up in smoke for no ones benefit at all).

3. Not a single PM I have used understands the dangers and costs of going to period. Not one. You need to manage this yourself and instruct them step by step and ignore them when they say "don't worry about it, periodic is just the same" because they couldn't care less if you are out of pocket thousands of dollars since it is not their money.

4. Check how long you need to give a notice of vacate without reason for the state of your property (all states differ in time required). I believe Vic is 90 days, NSW 60 days. Add 7 days on top of this for postage time. This is your cut off date to which you can legally avoid letting them go to periodic.
Then figure out rental appraisal as to whether you will increase the rent or not.
Then get the PM to call the tenant and ask them if they will be staying on, and let them know they will be getting a rental increase notice (if raising the rent), a new lease with the new rental amount, and a notice to vacate, and the notice to vacate will become invalid if they sign the new lease by 30 days prior to end of lease date.
Make sure your PM sends all of this out by the date required as calculated above.

My most recent experience with this was that the PM just asked them to sign now (3.5 months out) if they will stay on, so a week shy of the sending out notices cut-off date and could avoid sending out the notice to vacate at all.

It looks like you will be too late to do this by the book for your property now, but you can keep it in mind for next time. Also you can still ask them to sign a new lease and often they won't know that by now legally they can just say no and go to periodic whether you like it or not. Then there will be the pain of getting them to vacate as you may anger them and end up with damage and costs.

 

What months would you suggest are ideal for a lease to end?

 

In the month of Nevaendy
Or upon sale of the property, whichever occurs first
No vacancy loss
(Spring, late summer into early autumn)

 

Have a look at vacancy rates for your suburb , use the free search thingy.
Some try to get you to subscribe...
Set up your lease so that it may fall vacant in the 'least vacant month'
This works.
I hope this helps.
Manage the manager... never do this when you are feeling cross!
all the best.
Read your current lease, especially the section about ending a tenancy. THIS is where the gold is.
Complete agreement with you Anthony Brew

 

Months with more than 6 letters.

 

Thanks all.

Is there a way to get back into a lease once periodic kicks in? I’m not in this case but wonder how many landlords are put into this position if their agent doesnt follow up

 

Dear Giraffez

Ask them to sign a new lease.
If they don't , then ask them to go.
By the date mentioned on the lease...
last 28 days? Check this !
all in writing served properly.
for N.S.W.
Once you know all the dates, mark them on your calendar.
xxx must be done by xxx date.
or serve xxx notice etc.
Make sure you check this has been done.
Ask for proof from your PM other wise you will give away 'the goose that lays the golden egg.'

You are most welcome to check all this with Fair Trading for NSW
and post your findings on here,
Also let us know how you go?
This is the value of sharing info on a great forum like this !

 

They are always bound by the lease whether it be fixed or periodic.
Some states are more pro fixed lease but for me and my state there is little pro/cons to either. The main difference usually between the 2 is how much notice to give and ensuring that your landlord insurance accepts periodic leases (the main 2 EBM and Terri Scheer do)
My PM will start the process 6 weeks before the end of the lease sending out new fixed lease paperwork and finding out if the tenant wants to stay or renew fixed lease. On the occassion where they don't want to renew fixed lease and still want to stay I will generally let them go onto periodic as it's cheaper than a vacancy and reletting fees especially if they have been good tenants.
If you are too late in giving notice, ie there is 2 weeks left of lease and there is a 4 week mandatory notice then they will automatically roll onto periodic and you will then need to give the periodic notice period.

 

But if you serve the 4 week notice before the lease is up, doesn’t that count as serving notice?

Just out of curiousity, what is the benchmark for increasing rent. If they have been good tennants and have been keeping property in good shape, do you consider not increasing rent on the first renewal?

 

If you serve it 4 week or more before the end of the fixed lease then yes it counts.

In some states the notice period for fixed lease is different than period lease. ie it might be 4 weeks for fixed lease and 8 weeks for periodic. If the notice is not fully given before fixed lease expires then you have to give the longer periodic notice. All a bit messy and might not be the case in your state.

I would increase rent if you have made any improvement and/or if rents in the area have gone up. If they have been examplary tenants then I would not want to **** them off and would consider a small increase of $5 per week if rents have gone up in the area.

 

Thanks @Westminster, i mean in your example where there is 2weeks before end of lease and if i serve a 4 week notice, does the four weeks still effective when the lease rolls to a periodic?

I have made improvements but they are more due to wear and tear over the tenancy, does that still count as improvements?

 

a) - you need to serve 4 weeks notice of termination during the fixed term, if the 4 weeks runs past the fixed term that is 4 weeks, if it is served on day 1 of the lease it runs to the end of the lease. Use the Office of Fair trading website for its downloadable forms.
b) Improvements is something extra ie installing an ac unit vs replacing a faulty fan. Rent review is based on market if market goes up follow the market if it goes down, don't put in a rent review.