Is Sydney full??

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by DowntownBlock, 9th Oct, 2017.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
Tags:
?

Is your city full?

  1. My city is full

    21 vote(s)
    30.4%
  2. My city is not full

    31 vote(s)
    44.9%
  3. I don't know / care

    17 vote(s)
    24.6%
  1. DowntownBlock

    DowntownBlock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    483
    Location:
    Melbourne
  2. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,218
    Location:
    Melburn
    CBD is crowded but not full just yet, and not very well planned as a city. Greater Sydney is not full.
     
    Zoolander likes this.
  3. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    3rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    12,415
    Location:
    Sydney
    With primary school aged kids - I am keenly aware of the overcrowding in our schools - especially on the lower north shore.

    We have so many kids at our local public school (1,200) that they aren't all allowed on the oval at recess and lunch to run around and play - they have set days. Most of the other schools are just as bad - and a large percentage of the play area is taken up by demountable classrooms.

    The state govt is starting to invest in new infrastructure (3 story buildings :eek: ) - but that's only just providing for the current population and does not take into account any future growth from additional development.

    To me, it seems that the planners who allow this development seem to be under the impression that the only people who live in unit blocks are young people, or young married couples with pre-school aged kids and perhaps retirees who have downsized, and anyone with school aged kids would have moved to a house with the traditional "quarter acre block".

    That's absolutely not what's happening - those high rise apartment blocks are full of families as well, and they all need somewhere to send their kids to school.

    Chatswood public has so many kids (again, over 1,200) that they had to build a second (demountable) campus down at Chatswood High School just to fit them all in.

    Mowbray public used to be surrounded by houses, now there are hundreds and hundreds of units along Mowbray Rd and in surrounding areas - and more high rise blocks being built nearby.

    Most of the other public schools in the area have the same overcrowding issues too - and catchment zones are shrinking to try and manage this (but you can only shrink them so far - people still need to be able to send their kids somewhere).

    There has been one new school built on the lower north shore in recent history (Anzac Park Public in Cammeray), and there is another combined high school / primary school in development at the old UTS campus in Lindfield - but they only serve a fairly small geographical area which doesn't address the areas of highest density development in the area (Chatswood / St Leonards / North Ryde / Lane Cove).

    While all of Sydney may not be "full", parts of it certainly are and there needs to be a massive amount of infrastructure put in place to keep things working.
     
    Frazz and HGM like this.
  4. DowntownBlock

    DowntownBlock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    483
    Location:
    Melbourne
    It does seem to be most acute on north shore... immigration statistics show that residents are migrating domestically to other areas and Sydney is growing only due to foreign immigration.

    It will be interesting to see how Sydneysiders feel about the extra toll on social amenities now that property prices have stopped growing.

    In the absence of property price growth, how does Joe Public actually participate in economic growth? Not through wage growth anytime soon.
     
  5. Propertunity

    Propertunity Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,476
    Location:
    NSW
    There are single cities overseas with more people than all of Australia. We're not full it's just that some of us are starting to feel the squeeze.
     
    Toon and Sackie like this.
  6. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    6,935
    Location:
    Lower Blue Mountains
    Is this a survey based on the f off we're full bogan stickers?? The shire filled up many years ago :p
     
    qak likes this.
  7. DowntownBlock

    DowntownBlock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    483
    Location:
    Melbourne
    :)

    Seems PC members might have less bogans judging by results so far!
     
  8. icic

    icic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16th Dec, 2016
    Posts:
    1,109
    Location:
    sydney
    I live close to the Sydney CBD and I think having more population brings about more public/outing spaces to the local population. Just the last 5 years alone there has been huge amount of development via private businesses or public funding, I think without population and economic growth those project would not have been feasible.

    Here are some of the major projects that have benefited us in a major way.

    1. Central park precinct
    2. Darling Quater
    3. Darling Square
    4. Barangaroo business precinct
    5. Barangaroo Parkland
    5. Prince Alfred park renewal

    Looking forward to:
    1. City to East tramline
    2. Completion of darling square
    3. Fish market precinct development.

    There were also countless cafes, bars and restaurants that has opened the last 5 years in our local area that we are spoiled for choices. That was certainly not the case before that.

    I think affluent/skilled immigrants does bring lots of new vibe and benefits to the city that otherwise would not be possible or would take significantly longer. The issue is we are often focus on the bad without looking the multitude of benefits that they bring.
     
  9. qak

    qak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Jun, 2017
    Posts:
    1,678
    Location:
    Sydney
    Things like water, electricity, schools, public transport & other infrastructure need a lot of expansion work. All of those should have been properly planned and provided for before the population growth.
    The main reason we have had economic "growth" for so many years is because of the (immigration) population growth.
     
    Brickbybrick and DowntownBlock like this.
  10. scienceman

    scienceman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Feb, 2016
    Posts:
    336
    Location:
    Sydney
    They are all man made attractions, looks like we are heading in the direction of Singapore. A lot of Australians who have visited it describe it as soulless, boring, couldn't wait to leave after 5 min, etc. On the other hand our natural green spaces are under threat, all the apartment building is affecting the water quality of the Georges and Parramatta Rivers, Sydney's last population of koalas is under extreme threat and others have mention the overloaded infrastructure such as schools.
     
    Brickbybrick, Biz, bob shovel and 2 others like this.
  11. beith

    beith Active Member

    Joined:
    13th May, 2017
    Posts:
    28
    Location:
    Sydney
    It's an infrastructure problem. Sydney isn't full. Not when you compare to many other international cities around the world.
     
    icic and Skilled_Migrant like this.
  12. scienceman

    scienceman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Feb, 2016
    Posts:
    336
    Location:
    Sydney
    Yes well anyone can blab about better infrastructure but it has always lagged population growth. It is doubtful anyway that governments will have the money to keep up with our very high population growth. The Federal Government has just halved it's infrastructure spending and the States are very limited in the taxes they can raise.

    At 5 million we are already quite large by international standards and you can hardly say that the inhabitants of mega cities are any better off than we. If you look to the future you have to wonder whether a large population will be a burden. Ie what will they do for jobs with the rise of automation and artificial intelligence?
     
  13. strongy1986

    strongy1986 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,239
    Location:
    VIC
    Not sure why people are turning this into an immigration debate?
    My opinion is theres always scope for better infrastructure and greater population density but after a certain point all it does is degrade the city's inhabitants quality of life.
    I reckon Sydney is well past that tipping point and Melbourne is probably right on it.
    Its a big country and theres job opportunities everywhere, so why does Sydney need to keep developing?
     
    Brickbybrick and Dave3214 like this.
  14. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    3rd Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    2,457
    Location:
    Sydney
    I live in the Shire so tried lightly :)
     
  15. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    6,935
    Location:
    Lower Blue Mountains
    Yes, your spelling is a giveaway :)
     
  16. scienceman

    scienceman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Feb, 2016
    Posts:
    336
    Location:
    Sydney
    With our fertility rate just below replacement immigration is the main driver of our high population growth. Especially in Sydney and Melbourne as this is where most of the migrants end up.
     
  17. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    3rd Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    2,457
    Location:
    Sydney
    Haha auto correct on my phone. Did deserve that one, will pay.
     
    bob shovel likes this.
  18. DowntownBlock

    DowntownBlock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    483
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Where did the pride in Australian style of living go? Open spaces, natural wonders etc

    Why do ppl want the big cities to be like Singapore or Hong Kong if it can be avoided by policy change now.
     
    Brickbybrick, magyar and bob shovel like this.
  19. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    3rd Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    2,457
    Location:
    Sydney
    I agree. But it's a Migration issue.
    300,000 Net migrants per year.

    Why do we need this. God if you mention this at public forum it's worse than if you mention Neuclear energy or wanting cheap power. Left loving and silly Liberal government policies.
     
    Brickbybrick and DowntownBlock like this.
  20. marty998

    marty998 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    627
    Location:
    Sydney
    Yeah... if I want to live in a place like Singapore or Hong Kong I'd go to Singapore or Hong Kong.

    There's just not enough open space anymore. Not everyone want to go down a lift, walk across concrete paths and sit in a cafe with no green anywhere.

    A tree planted in the middle of a footpath doesn't count.
     
    Brickbybrick likes this.