Is my PM doing the right thing?

I just recently had an old deck replaced at one of my properties and this is the email thread between my PM (red) and me (blue) below.
I'm not sure whether she's working in my best interest or not. The new deck looks fine to me, but I don't really know about the legislation in QLD.

Either way, I'm not impressed with the trespassing tradie.



Secondly, we had another contractor at the property quoting and has come back to us requesting the details of the tradesman who did the rear deck and stairs. I wasn’t able to supply it at the time, however, have been advised that nothing about the new work is compliant and is highly illegal with local council standards. As this is the case, I’m left with few options but the following:



1. Put in a report to council and request an inspection and approval to ensure it complies

2. Hand back the management of the property as I have a duty of care to ensure the property is fit and safe to live in. Unfortunately we would both be liable in the event of an accident or injury at the property, and now that this concern is raised to me, I have a duty of care to follow it up (or terminate).



It may not be the case, but as I am now informed, I have no other option but to make sure I, along with you, are covered on all grounds.



I look forward to hearing your thoughts

Kind Regards


Please let me know on what grounds it's supposed to be "highly illegal".

Please also don't pass on the details to the other person that quoted. It sounds to me like he is just bitter that he didn't get the job. I'm assuming it's the one that wanted to charge over $8k?

Why was he back at the property? Unless you asked him to go there, he was actually trespassing. So I would take his objection with a grain of salt.

Still, as there are concerns, can you please get him to put the concerns in writing and send it through?

Thanks,



It is not the same person, so this does concern me greatly. I value his opinion as he is qualified.



None of the measurements meet building code, along with the product used. If you like, I can have council attend and inspect. This way, you might feel more comfortable that your money was well spent.



Kind Regards





Can you please give me his number and I will give him a call and discuss and advise after?




I’ve sent him your number.



Thanks

 

I would have a chat with the person/organisation who did the replacement and raise the concerns your PM is raising.

I would also ask them for certification. If they balk at that, I would advise that you will arrange for your own inspector/structural engineer to provide certification.

In other words, keep the issue out of the hands of the PM, the other tradie and the Council for now.

When you get the facts, your course of action will be become obvious.

 

Does council need to approve decks the first place? Or was instruction given to build it in X standard?

If not, why wasn't that done? Or if it was done and it complies, no further action needed.
Was the work done by PM recommended tradesperson or your own?

There can be cases where a tradesperson wants to make money so will pick on another persons work in order to be able to repair it and 'earn money'. But there are certainly also cases where doing something cheaply doesn't result in a quality (or sometimes legal) job being done. PM's can certainly help determine which, by answering the above questions.

Otherwise talk to the person who built it and see what instructions / specifications they were given and what their take on it is. This may shed some light on things.

 

I suppose it would come down to many many questions

1. Did the PM manage the quote and payment of the person who built the new deck
2 Who signed off on the deck being completed and paid?
3. Was the deck checked at the end to ensure it was built to plans
4. Were the plans approved by council? Did they need to be?
5. Did the plans display how it meets building codes of Australia?

This is tricky. The trade who has seen it doesn’t need to prove that it’s not to code but they have passed on their concerns. I would pay for a building inspection on it and not involve council or the original trade yet as it’s just “he said, she said” at the moment.

If it’s not to code then someone needs to manage the original trade as to why it isn’t.

 

Classic PM behaviour. They often use this "duty of care" story to make themselves look important. Notice the language used in the email, it's very emotive. Ask for details and follow it up yourself.

 

A PM who wants to reject a client due to concern about structural risks should be listened to.

BCC may / may not need to give approval and if the work isnt to code then there is a issue. Recent cases of balcony collapse have involved landlords and agents.

What does "along with the product used" mean ? Is the timber underspec or non structural ?

I wouldnt have council inspect it but seek a qualified certifiers opinion. Their expert view may support a (legal) claim if the workmanship is found at fault.

 

I'm confused as to who this 'other person' is that has passed on their concerns.. and why they were on your property?
I assume this 'other person' is qualified in whatever they need to be to be making comment.

 

First point is that your PM is right, they do owe a duty of care and there was a recent case where the agent was found partially liable. I suspect this is why the PM has acted this way.

Second point is to get a new PM. The way they have managed the issue is highly unprofessional and does not reflect on someone I would be dealing with.

I would have thought a private certifier signed off on the work?

 

Pics?
Tools

 

Whats the highest point from the ground to the decking ?

In the cases with balconies I am pretty certain they need to be signed of by an structural engineer that they are compliant.
Its became a pretty serious issue for many strata owners and that would probably also include elevated decking.

 

We don’t really have enough information to make completely informed comments, it sounds like there’s some more context that isn’t detailed here. The PM seems very blunt for this to be the beginning of this discussion.

I also just want to clarify, you believe that one of the tradespeople who quoted went back to the property of his own accord to look at the work once it was completed? I suppose it is possible the person is being spiteful or profiteering, but I would think it is more likely that the Property Manager had concerns about the work (possibly after you decided to use your own contractor?) and asked him to take a look for her.

Instead of looking to point fingers, you need to be finding out whether the structure is compliant or not. I would continue the track you’re on with the PM and have them send through an explanation of why it’s not compliant according to her trusted tradesperson. You will want to discuss this with the contractor you engaged and also may also want to get a fully qualified second opinion for yourself.

The potential liability here with a non-compliant structure -and a deck no less- is a serious issue that you need to investigate as a very high priority. Property Managers don’t offer to hand back business lightly.
I wouldn’t have council attend though, and I think you have a right to be annoyed that the PM suggested that.

 

Thank you all for your responses, I’ve certainly read them while pondering what to do.


Just to clarify, I (unfortunately) engaged the guy myself, rather than going through a PM.


I also spoke to the other guy that raised the concerns and he was onsite to quote for other work, so that’s fine, but I’m still not entirely happy with how my PM handled the issue.

It seems that his concerns are also valid and not just out of spite. He even sent me pictures of the areas that I hadn’t previously seen, which makes the installation look a bit shotty.


I know that the PM is not a professional trades person, but it would have been good if she gave me some negative feedback earlier, rather than telling me it looked all good after it was done. Especially given that she was organising access and met the tradie.


So it looks like my only option is now to have this deck fixed or replaced, as contrary to what I initially thought, there are actual issues.


I’ve emailed the guy I used giving him the option of either a full refund or doing rework to bring it up to spec and I let him know that I’ll get a certifier to look at the deck afterwards.