Is more information necessarily better?

Discussion in 'Property Information Resources & Tools' started by The Y-man, 18th Jul, 2020.

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  1. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    In recent times, we have had a lot of posts asking about where to get this data, that data, or why isn't there a repository for this stat or that.

    While seemingly useful, I wonder how ultimately beneficial the access to this information would be?

    In the 20+ years of property investing, I have made money from arbitrage where there was (as the learned academics would say) an "information asymmetry". What this means is that one party to the transaction knew more than the others.

    Provision of broad, universal data (if such things were possible) eliminates aspects of this asymmetry - i.e. you, me, and most importantly the sellers know!

    So while this might lead to more trades at a "fair" market price, it will IMHO make "finding a bargain" much harder.

    Let me illustrate this:

    Let's say in ages past before internet I see a house for sale. The ad on the newspaper is crapply written, no photos, no internet to check prices of previous sales, no internet list of similar properties sold, no internet sites telling you the size of the land... I go to the open inspection anyway and discover the house is not as bad as described and better still it's on 1,000 sqm where as the houses around it are on 500sqm!! Here is asymmetry. I now know something many other buyers don't!

    In this scenario, to have the same knowledge as me, a person would have had to have:
    • read the same paper and found the same ad
    • gone to the open to see what it was like

    Similarly, the seller only has knowledge of similar sales through an appraisal of the agent. Now the agent might not be up to date with zoning, future planning by the council etc.... only that they sold a vaguely similar house down the road but it was only on 500sqm, and in their opinion (they don't have enough data) the extra 500sqm is worth $X (wild guess).

    Bring forward to today: both seller and every potential buyer has a raft of data including median prices, previous sales figures, zoning, council plans, rental yiels in the area, .... the list goes on (and we are seemingly trying to get even more).

    I feel this has made it difficult for me as a buyer to get a bargain because there is a "level (or at least a gently sloped) playing field" - of course it is better for me a seller as I can now get a better idea of what my property is worth etc.

    Of course, we don't sit back and just wallow in sadness - we find other means of achieving arbitrage - such as emotional leverage attached to failed auctions (someone asked recently why I only ever buy properties that are passed in at auctions - this is one of the reasons)

    So, does more information, data, stats mean better buying? I don't think so.... (on the other hand - can we stop it? I don't think so either!)

    The Y-man
     
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  2. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    Inertia, Momentum, Action.

    Data is useful for most, poison for many

    ta
    rolf
     
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  3. Mark F

    Mark F Well-Known Member

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    I have always liked this academic heirarchy.

    Data - unconnected facts
    Data that are organised and condensed is:
    Information - knowing what, when, where, who - understanding relations
    Information that is actionable is:
    Knowledge - knowing how - understanding patterns
    Knowledge leads to:
    Wisdom - knowing why - understanding principles.

    Always awkward trying work "it" out or to discuss things with people who are suffering paralysis due to data overload - usually not information overload by this definition. As you move up the heirarchy it becomes easier as things become clearer.

    While we are all hoping the seller doesn't realise the true value of their property or are willing to discount it to "clear the decks" we are also competing with other buyers. As a renovator my aim is to find properties that are badly presented and usually badly maintained but have a good design (room size, flow, solar orientation etc) and simple construction. Many can't see past the poorly patched wall or crappy pain job while others are dazzled by the snazzy "dressing" of the property or smell of baking bread.
     
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  4. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    No, not necessarily


    You need to be able to interpret the data? Not everyone actually will Or Can do this.

    If you dont understand it, network with the right people/professionals to give you an edge

    I think there is way too much useless information

    All I need is the address of the property and a phone from here I will network with the people that can provide me with the information I need.
    Of course you need to ask the right questions

    Ok its not rocket science. But it does surprise me that there are many that dont get this.

    never rely on one person for information, this is a mistake
     
  5. ellejay

    ellejay Well-Known Member

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    We never had home computers when I started investing and I was following people who became financially free without such technology. I'm 50 now and financially free. I've just started using stats and systems to analyse suburbs for development projects, and for checking feasibility. I expect this new awareness of IT and stats etc to only accelerate my future results but hey..it's all been done before and without the aid of IT. It depends on the individual as ever.
     
  6. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    An experienced developer goes in armed with as much knowledge as is available, familiar with DCP/LEP, stock of brown envelopes, financial modelling tools (or back of an envelope feasibility), better access to finance, knowledge of historic sales/trends/end market value, SWOT analysis, etc.

    Other than experience the rest is available.
     
  7. Tony3008

    Tony3008 Well-Known Member

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    It is extraordinary how much data is available today. In my uni days (c.1973) I had a holiday job with a management consultancy. One project was on world trade in copper: I, as a lonely student, was packed off to Westminster library to compile the daily copper wire bar prices from the previous year's copies of the Financial Times .... Which I did, keeping my coat on (Christmas holiday: winter UK) - when I asked the librarian for the windows to be shut, my request was declined on the grounds that if the place got warm the street people would come in. In those days if you wanted information on a UK company, Companies House would provide a microfiche for payment, delivered in a week or two. Now anyone in the world can instantly look at any UK company's filings for free (Get information about a company). Old newspapers, planning records .... Changed times.
     
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  8. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Well-Known Member

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    I think your fifth point should be System - mapping a process that works and repeating it. That's what successful companies like apple and Facebook do.
     
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  9. Mark F

    Mark F Well-Known Member

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    As I said it is an old (1990's?) academic description in systems design and the four levels suited the courses that I was teaching. Others have expanded it but I have forgotten several of the variations. I agree that systems could be added as once you have knowledge then you have the ability to discern which systems may be viable in a given situation. The problem with systems is of course applying the appropriate system to the problem at hand. At times Apple and Facebook get it wrong because they try to apply a single solution to all problems.

    I have always loved the quote that "for every complex problem there is a simple solution that is inevitably wrong".
     
  10. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    DIKW pyramid - Wikipedia

    The Y-man
     
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  11. Mark F

    Mark F Well-Known Member

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  12. bashworth

    bashworth Well-Known Member

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    I always work on the principle that any every spreadsheet has at least two mistakes!
     
  13. rizzle

    rizzle Well-Known Member

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    I read about an academic study once (it may have been an anecdote in a Burton Malkiel book, not sure) that went like this...

    The study was for professional punters choosing bets on a horse race. There were three different groups:
    • Group 1 had no information about the horses/race etc (control)
    • Group 2 were allowed to choose four bits of information about the race that they were most interested in knowing (out of a preset list of ~20 bits of information)
    • Group 3 had access to all 20 bits of information.
    Group 2 performed best since group 3 produced overconfidence in personal judgement which clouded their decision making/bet amounts.

    More information =/= better quality judgement. But some information > none.