Is being Religious a part of being Successful

If there could be a religion called "Live and let live" we would be the first to join!

 

This+

 

There is

 

Or Ring ring

 

Sorry Terry if I'm not replying to your post. Not that I don’t have an opinion but it would lead us into a philosophical debate that serves no useful purpose.

We all need to refrain from arrogance. My hope is there will come a day when science and religion are mutually inclusive. For this to happen we all need to grow in maturity and spirituality.

Religious people would do well to go beyond teachings and beliefs and learn to trust their direct inner experience. Without inner experience religions would be just ideologies and very oppressive ones at that.

Scientific people would do well to accept the reality of consciousness as something more than the play of matter. Who are we and why do we try to achieve anything if there are only atoms? Modern physics (quantum, mostly) is opening a new window on this and we should keep our minds open as there’s still a long way to go.

Yes there is. It’s not what religion you follow but how you practise it.

I’ve been doing (mostly Buddhist) meditation for a long time and, as I’ve posted before, our family received incredible help from several Catholic nuns when we needed it the most. One sister in particular remained a close friend of ours until she died a few years ago.

Once I asked her to describe to me as best as she could her inner experience when she prays to God. What she told me relates so tightly with my own meditation experience that I came to the realisation “her God” is also “mine”, if of course I’m willing to discard all my preconceptions about names and identities.

This is why I no longer call myself a Buddhist or anything else even though I continue my Buddhist practice.

Going inwards brings people together. Focusing on the outside (and words/concepts/beliefs are very dangerous in that sense) breeds judgement and conflict.

 

I agree with much of your post. Where i have issue is when you say;

"Religious people would do well to go beyond teachings and beliefs and learn to trust their direct inner experience. Without inner experience religions would be just ideologies and very oppressive ones at that."

Personally i dont believe religion ( speaking about my own as i dont know nearly enough about others, no disrespect intended) to be oppressive, people oppress other people. Also, going beyond your teachings is fine however there comes a point where if you stray too far off then you're really not practicing your faith anymore. Imo I think rather than go beyond, I'd prefer to understand better and on a deeper level my own faith.

But each to their own. Live and let live, first and foremost.

 

Hi Leo, you seem perfectly happy with your faith so who am I to suggest you should stray from it?

My experience has been that by going beyond teachings my understanding of them has only become deeper. You see, teachings are words but what they teach goes beyond words. By reaching what lies beyond you unlock the teachings.

On the surface and a purely intellectual level, the differences between my friend the Catholic nun and me were impossible to reconcile. “My” religion teaches no God, “hers” one only God. Mine, emptiness; hers, fullness. Mine, the here and now; hers, God’s kingdom being not of this world, etc… And yet we were able to meet in spirit through our shared inner experience.

What divided us was the words. Words are limited and dualistic in nature while the Spirit is infinite and all-embracing. There, the Christian original sin is the same as Buddhist engrained suffering. No-mind is the same as making God your dwelling place. No-ego is the same as leaving yourself in the hands of the Lord. Salvation is the same as enlightenment. And of course Christian love is the same as Buddhist compassion.

Once this is realised there is no urge to abandon one’s faith but only to engage with it at a deeper level.

And there will be no wars, yay!

As I said, religion is oppressive only for those who follow its edicts without truly experiencing it in their inner being. In that sense oppression can be self-inflicted, which makes it harder to beat.

Only my opinion. No offence. Cheers.

 

I get what your saying now and completely agree.

 

Religion is Centrelink for emotions, there to fall back on when all else fails

 

Little kids are told to behave and play nice so that Santa will give them presents.

Telling people fairy tales because they dont have the emotional maturity to accept reality and function accordingly is nothing new.

Im not judging though. Took me 21 years to stop believing in fairy tales.

I do feel sorry for people still relying on fairy tales to live their lives by though. It would be fine if the fairies or spirits or whatever were nice. But the popular gods are genocidal maniacs. And all the people I work with that actually hear spirits are miserable because the spirits tell them to go kill themselves.

Anyway I'm sure mental health wasn't around 2018 years ago and all the voices those guys were hearing were in fact the real spirits.

 

I wonder at that voices bit too!

Why do you feel sorry though? If I'm happy doing what I want to, and you are happy doing what you wish, what's the issue? To feel sorry is to assume you know exactly how things are and does anyone really know for sure?

 

Sorry for anyone that was in a similar position to me back in the day.

All those salvation doctrines are inherently horrible to live with. Its an abusive relationship "do what I say or else!" Always walking on egg shells in case you misstep. Thinking all your unsaved loved ones are going to burn, etc...

Or even just the sheer detachment from reality that all spiritual beliefs bring. Some people are happy I guess. Kids love Santa... but I don't know. Doesn't everyone get to that stage where non evidence based belief just feels hollow... like you are kidding yourself just to get the good feelings?

I guess cognitive dissonance is pretty amazing. So you'd probably be able to get to the stage where you believe it 99% of the time.

 

Most of what you said, I've wondered at, struggled with and come to a point where I do what calls to my sense of right and wrong. But again, how do we know with absolute certainty what is true? I can't draw an absolute, I simply don't know enough.

 

You know enough to function.

I know chances are good tomorrow gravity will still apply so I probably should be careful putting the rest of my roof up.

It just all gets a little silly if you waste your finite existence holding an apple and saying to yourself "how can I absolutely know I am holding an apple." Just eat the damn apple.

 

Haha at the example! I'm holding a fruit, you think it's an apple I think it's a guava. Neither know for sure. My point was that you don't know it's an apple in your finite limited knowledge. Neither do I. So you eat an apple while I should be able to enjoy my guava. That is all.

To me there are two types of fanatics, both question people's right to live in a way they choose to, both think what they know is absolutely correct and both refuse to budge from that. One uses religion to back their finite knowledge, another uses science and "facts".

It's all fine to believe what you do, it's not fine if you disrespect others and their beliefs by making it look like your path is better. That was my only point.

But that's my take on it, you are entitled to yours.

 

Yeah I think different but religious discussion is pointless. So whats the point...