Huge drop in value - Mining/Gas/Ag town - what to do??

PS - I think it's a really good idea to face all possible outcomes, both good and bad and mentally and emotionally prepare yourself for each as well as put some strategies in place for what you might do in each. If you think bankruptcy Is a possibility it would be wise to begin preparing for that in terms or asset protection if you haven't already done so.

it's much easier to face challenging decisions if you have already thought through all of them and really accepted them as possible outcomes before the event actually occurs. It helps you keep your cool in the midst of potentially stressful situations and helps to maintain and even footing.

It doesn't sound like you're at the point of these worst case scenarios but just good to explore them as a possible outcome so you will know what you will do if they did eventuate. And I really hope they don't eventuate.

 

Back in 2011, over 50% of exports were from mining related activities. Less so today but still in the 40s I think. Overall mining is about 7% of our economy and employs 3% of workers.

Thats a ridiculous blanket statement. Kind of wondering what agricultural land in the Pilbara has been destroyed.

Perhaps an even more ridiculous statement. For starters during the GFC, I think it was just us, China and Israel that didnt go into recession. Australia now I believe has had the longest stretch of economic growth in history recently surpassing Hollands 26 years of growth.

 

I guess I'll just leave this here...

 

Yes ridiculous. Well done, you are able to mimic meaningless stats that you found on Google. Very Good. Do you have any opinions of your own or should I just continue the discussion with a robot? I mean seriously, economic growth? We are in 1 Trillion dollars worth of debt, and we can't mine our way out of it im afraid. You have foreign companies mining and fracking prime agricultural land taking the profits offshore and taking away from the real future of Australia which is in agriculture/farming.

 

Lol. This is getting beyond pointless with people now picking different parts of statements that they obviously don't understand. I think your Avatar is bang on. Let me try and clarify your brilliant observation. We would be nowhere near where we are as a society without things like ironore or coal. Ok, mining has its place and I understand this- not even a debate. The whole point is the profiteering in unethical and unfair practice not in the existence of said companies.

 

Yeah it can work in practice and there are models that show it can work. Again, have a look at the US. Property owners owner above and below the ground. And properties can be sold with mineral rights below the ground being held by the previous owner. That is, you can have a situation where there is a different owner to above and below land rights.

Mineral rights is beholden to the right holder........and if a mining company wants to exploit those commodities, the right holder benefits through royalties.

Royalties are taxed .......and everyone benefits.

No one party is giving absolute power over the other. Just as it should be.

 

Who is we? Government debt is about a quarter of that.

I would like to think that calling you out on your ridiculous blanket statements is a fact but will concede that is just my opinion.

And local companies like Origin and Santos are in on the bandwagon as well. I guess its preferable to burn coal and/or import petroleum from west africa, refined in singapore as we do now rather than 'take profits offshore'

 

@Inov8ive You have provided very little evidence besides your 'expert' opinion. I have provided you with facts (yes I can use google) however you keep contradicting your thoughts.

It started with 'Mining companies add nothing to Australia'

To no no no, I didn't mean all mining companies and they do add something.

Where is the trillion dollar worth of debt?

Maybe you should try this fantastic tool you mentioned called google before you present information. Google 'how much debt is australia in' and you will see a Wikipedia page on the Australian government debt. Just in case you struggle with google here is a link Australian government debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Currently the Australian Federal Government is 400 million in debt, which is not even half of your amount.

I would hate to see your property forecast if you are out by more than 50% out on something you can easily google.

 

We all provide exactly same...to varying degrees.......either as workers, investors or companies.

THX......why are you forever so angry and anti- everything. I've read many of your posts and I really don't understand why you tend to yell so much.

Communities/societies relies on everyone acting and contributing to the common good.

Historically, when society hasn't acted with a communal social conscience, the alternative was a form of anarchy, ala the wild wild west.

However, in your favour, I do agree that commodity based companies are Australia's biggest exporters and money earners.

Australia is still, for the most part, a agrarian/primary producer. So nuts that it is still essentially the same country since Federation.

But that being said, mining companies owe everything to the communities that they mine in. If it weren't for the resources that exist in those rural communities, the mining companies couldn't exist. Everyone has to.......and should benefit.

 

No we don't.

Not angry about anything. I just reply to correct misinformation.

No they don't

Society has never acted with a communal social conscience.

No they don't, and as already mentioned, mining already provides benefits to all.

And seriously? you do know the resources existed before the communities right?

 

My heart weeps for BHP.
Nocookies
They paid no tax on $918 million worth of revenue in 2015!
Revenue doesn't equal profit; however, there is a hell of a lot of tax avoidance going on.

As for cutting jobs it's got nothing to do with tax, it's about the fall in commodity prices. Companies like BHP aren't charities- they exist for profit. The fact is it doesn't matter how profitable they are they will only hire just as much people are needed to perform the work. Look at the Australian banking industry for example. Their making billions of dollars worth of profit, but they are employing less staff as technology and outsourcing enables them to do so.

 

Why do you think you pay tax?

You pay tax for the communal good.

Exactly my point. And resources belong to the land owner........not the State, and definitely, not mining companies without paying for that right.

Why should mining companies reap billions of dollars of profit (which is often taxed abroad) and the land holder gets some crappy deal. Why should the local community not benefit.

 

Because if I don't I would be subject to state sanctioned force.

No you don't. You pay it because of the threat you face from state sanctioned force.

No it doesn't. It belongs to the state. Mining companies pay royalties to the state for the right to mine. Why do you insist on this easily verifiable falsehood?

Because the landowner does not own what lies beneath his land. Again this is easily verifiable information. The local community does benefit directly and/or indirectly.

 

We mostly provide services

http://www.rba.gov.au/snapshots/economy-snapshot/

 

you ride on roads and highways paid by the collective good.

your children are educated and paid for by the collective good.

the police force and army that protect your collective good.......also pays for everyone else as well.

Because it is BS. It is highway robbery. My land is my land. You want it. Pay up. Anything else is stealing from me and my community.

 

no it doesn't. click in for more details.

or try this one for simplicity. https://dfat.gov.au/about-us/public...s/fy2013-14-goods-services-top-25-exports.pdf

 

Do you people even think or check facts before posting info?

If BHP is only doing 918 million worth of REVENUNE then we are going to have some serious problems!

Have a look at their annual report for 2015 and to make it easier page 213.

Their revenue was 53,860,000,000, bit different from your 918,000,000....Or are you normally out by about 53 BILLION!

If you want just Australian revenue then you are still out by over 50% as they did 2.2 BILLION in revenue.

Source:
http://www.bhpbilliton.com/~/media/...-reports/2015/bhpbillitonannualreport2015.pdf

Here is a task for you, can you reply how much tax they paid Australia on page 217? Or are you still struggling to understand. Just to let you know it is more than your revenue you provided...

Tax minimization is what we all do both personally along with companies, why should BHP be any different? It isn't tax avoidance like cash in hand jobs or the local food joint taking cash orders not through the books.

 

Yep and all collected via the threat of state sanctioned force, we accept this threat because of the benefits it gives us but you would be rather naive to think we have a choice in the matter of whether to pay taxes etc or not.

So the truth emerges. What happened to the communal good rhetoric? Really it's just about you wanting to get paid for what is under your land despite you having no legal right to it.

 

Exactly. They are doing what the law allows.

However..........the outcry you are hearing on this thread and elsewhere is because there is an uneasy feeling of injustice.

How can big mining companies like BHP be reaping such huge profits........when the original land owners gets so little in return.

How can BHP still generate such big profits in a climate of low commodity prices.......and yet, rural communities are suffering huge face value property losses and unemployment........and the country is also suffering.

The argument isn't about BHP doing something illegal.

However, the whole system is a tad immoral........as it benefits the likes of BHP.......not the property owner........nor the community.......nor the country.

I'm not a socialist voter by nature. I am pretty much, a middle of the road, swing voter.

But if it smells like exploitation, I am willing to call it for what it is.

 

And are you so naive to think that you don't enjoy the benefits of living in a democracy. If you don't like paying tax, stay off the roads, don't leave your house.........don't do anything to do outside your property limits. Alternatively, you are a hypocrite.

Are you kidding. My land is my land. I bought it. I pay my taxes. I contribute.

Alternatively, if the State wants it........why should I bother buying a property unless I am going to be compensated for either selling it or taking equal benefit to the State and a mining company to enjoy the benefits of MY PROPERTY.

Or the State and mining companies should pay for my living expenses. They can't have it both ways.

Just because the law says, doesn't make it morally right.

Laws can be changed.........and always have..........for the communal good.

And that is the discussion being had right now.