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Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by Gockie, 6th Aug, 2015.

  1. Gockie

    Gockie I'm an ISTP-A female, so I might be a bit quirky! Premium Member

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    If there was a politics section on this Forum or stupid ideas section on the Forum I'd put this in there....

    This is from GetUp:
    Screenshot_2015-08-06-17-39-17.png
    If they got rid of the 50% CGT discount there's no way in hell I'd even consider selling an IP until I retire so I think getting rid of CGT discount would only drive prices up in the short term as investors stop selling... while it might sound attractive to people without assets... it's just stupidity to even propose it... (sorry for strong words but really)....
     
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  2. jaybean

    jaybean Well-Known Member

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    I wonder whether a communist party would have a shot at being elected.
     
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  3. Bullion Baron

    Bullion Baron Well-Known Member

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    There might be fewer sellers, but also fewer buyers.

    While I would prefer lower taxes and smaller government in general, it's hard to disagree with Senator Ludlam's comment:

    "No credible argument exists to justify why the creation of wealth through assets should be taxed at a different rate than the creation of wealth through income,"

    I think taxing investors on the real (inflation-adjusted) capital gain was the fairer method which should be returned to (for all assets, not just property).
     
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  4. Biz

    Biz Well-Known Member

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    These idiots seem to know all the loop holes, why don't they go out there and make some money with them instead of just bleeting about it?
     
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  5. Gockie

    Gockie I'm an ISTP-A female, so I might be a bit quirky! Premium Member

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    Yeah, but knowing property doubles every 7-10 years, my plan is buy, value add, pull out equity, hold. A change in the tax laws for CGT won't stop me from accumulating (At least, I don't think it would stop me).... At the current moment I'm much more likely to sell down only if I become jobless with little income.

    Half CGT makes it sort of ok to sell if that's not the situation i'm in.
     
  6. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    In principal it would make sense, but they would take it too far.
    Providing services at no extra cost to benefit the community should qualify under that title.
     
  7. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    Sounds reasonable to me. The whole issue of taxation of earned income and income from investments should be based around fairness. I don't think they currently are. The whole way of calculating a capital gain from an invesment and then discounting the capital gain by 50% (in some circumstances) seems contrived, overly complex and ultimately unfair.

    The real problem with trying to undertake any reform of taxation is the immaturity of politicians on all sides means that mature and ration discussion of the issues is not possible. I remember the opposition during the introduction of the GST widely proclaiming that it would spell the end of Australia's standard of living. Of course it did not such thing but such histrionics do nothing to further the discussion. More recent debates have been no more productive. The LNP in opposition didn't approach anything tax related in a constructive manner and the current opposition are as bad or worse when it comes to tax reform.

    In isolation, I don't agree with abolishing the 50% CGT discount. However, I would support a comprehensive review of the tax system and comprehensive reforms. If the 50% CGT discount was abolished as part of comprehensive reforms, I would support it. Speaking of which, does anyone know if Henry made any recommendations on CGT?
     
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  8. wombat777

    wombat777 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    The Business Council of Australia are bleating about CGT concessions for property investors to provide funding for a reduction in the company tax rate to 25%.
     
  9. Gockie

    Gockie I'm an ISTP-A female, so I might be a bit quirky! Premium Member

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    Fair enough! Any investors forced to sell --> good for government income.
    I'm not sure it would make property more affordable to the majority just yet though
     
  10. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    I was just thinking that the 50% CGT discount applies to shares too, so if we scrap it, we would kill the stockmarket too ;)

    Anyway, I'm reading the 8 fairer budget policy alternatives on their website now. It's interesting how much BS they provide as 'fact'. "Australia is one of the few countries to allow negative-gearing losses to be offset against income...". Incorrect.

    Their policy measures may be valid but their arguments sure do skew left:
    1. Reform negative gearing - fifty percent of this tax break goes to the top two percent of income earners.
    2. Reform superannuation tax concessions - instead of giving all the tax breaks to those at the top.
    3. Introduce the 'Buffett Rule' - put a cap on loopholes for the top 1% of income-earners.
    4. Scrap the capital gains tax discount - concessions on capital gains tax predominantly benefit the wealthy.
    5. Cut fossil fuel subsidies - giving a hand out to multi-million dollar companies.
    6. Impose a super profits tax on banks. The big banks make inflated profits.
    7. Introduce a 'Tobin Tax' on high frequency financial transactions. Big investment banks.
    8. Place a duty on wealthy estates. Place an inheritance tax on large estates.

    All based on the premise that wealth redistribution helps to break cycles of inequality. Incorrect, incorrect, incorrect. While I don't oppose any of the mesures per se, the way they have been written up is to penalise anyone who is wealthy or a high income earner. Is GetUp! the Greens?
     
  11. S1mon

    S1mon Well-Known Member

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    with risk surely there should be reward? dont we want to encourage people to try and make a gain not put them off investing in the first place?
     
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  12. THX

    THX Well-Known Member

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    Funded by Labor and the unions. Just another brain dead lefty group.
     
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  13. Hanison

    Hanison Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like we might be joining the eastern bloc.
     
  14. Beelzebub

    Beelzebub Well-Known Member

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    You could still sell. All reasonable proposals relating to NG & CG tax are retrospective. Any rule changes will only apply to new investments and not old ones.

    Either way the political realities mean it is unlikely to happen
     
  15. Bullion Baron

    Bullion Baron Well-Known Member

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    Spending additional time and money on study, certificates or other training is not a risk?
    Moving interstate to take a position or between companies is not a risk?
    Starting your own business to draw an income is not a risk?

    There are risks whether making money through income or assets, why should one receive a major tax advantage over the other?
     
  16. HUGH72

    HUGH72 Well-Known Member

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    Get rid of stamp duty and land tax and you might have a point but these taxes are proping up state governments around the country not GST revenue.
    Its a conveniently forgotten point by many who are in favour of removing the CG tax discount.
     
  17. sash

    sash Well-Known Member

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    Baahhaaa.....good luck getting this through....

     
  18. LibGS

    LibGS Well-Known Member

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    Very funny 3 minutes of my life reading this thread. Best laugh I've had for days. Wait till the comrades see this.
     
    Last edited: 7th Aug, 2015
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  19. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    I actually inadvertently attended a friends of Cuba/slightly Communist presentation dinner once. Upon reflection, I would have hated it if there was a fire or something and I died there, because it would have looked like I was one of them.
     
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  20. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    These blokes never mention that whilst I get pinged tax at my marginal rate on 50% of the gain, some poor dude is getting slugged all that lovely Stamp Duty on his side of the transaction as well.

    God NO!

    How dare folks make more money than us....evil greedy capitalists and over-achievers who buy up all the properties and dare to not be miserable pensioners.

    A rich capitalist (if they are so inclined - and many are) can feed a lot of mouths, fix a lot of broken water pipes and so forth.

    A broke, hessian bag wearing tree-hugger/Civ Lib who hates rich folks; not so many mouths fed by one of them.

    bwahahahahahaha. God; we had 5 IP's at one point, and barely ever earned more than average wages; a few years spread across many.

    Most high income earners buy a Holiday House as their first "second" property.
     
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