Driveway repair on property under strata management

So in pic 7158 to the left is your house and assume garage behind the wall with the down pipe?

Does the wall with the downpipe form the joining wall between you and your neighbor?

If so all the damage is to the paving on your neighbors side.

Can you include address or link to google so that can see the property from above.

 

I wouldn't have a clue with the details of the property. I'm in WA, and this stuff happens in coincidence with having the current PM.

The address is 20/8 Taylor Drive Mildura. Unfortunately googlemap didn't go capture the area to be seen in 360 degrees.

However, I finally found out where I stand in this matter. I have a conveyancer to look at my vendor statement and I rang Victoria Consumer Affair, and it does confirm the driveway is not covered by the strata.

The conveyancer got me to contact the original builder because it makes more sense that this whole thing happens due to the builder took shortcut by laying the pavement on one big area extending from my driveway to next door's driveway. And indeed, the mixture of vehicle driving on it plus weather would little by little pushing the bricks away.

I also spoke to the guy who did the quote, and he confirmed that plus he mentioned the original builder only using shallow sand under the bricks.

I also contacted my insurance which happens to cover driveway if it's not under strata, and as luck goes, it needs to be a malicious damage by the tenant.

Hence, I accept if I have to pay out of pocket.
But I will only accept paying my part only.
If the neighbour wants me to pay his part as well, then I will need to pass it on to the PM who has neglected her duty since the start of the issue in March 1st.
I have all the emails where I asked her for update on the driveway and no replies and only after the second complaint she said it's difficult to find a quote.

So, we'll see, I do hope the neighbour will still pay for their part.

 

How old is the driveway?
Is there any recourse through the builder being dodgy?
Also if it comes down to poor workmanship by the builder, then I dont see how you could be liable for your neighbour's driveway.

 

Looks to me like the damage is right between you and the neighbour and then further along to the neighbours side. Very little of the moved pavers is actually on your side. Certainly all the pavers with the grass coming through are all part of the neighbours side.

Really can't see how the neighbours denies any responsibility.

My guess would be that it's the down pipe on your neighbours side that has caused the subsidence either because they laid the pipe and didn't compact the adequately or there is a loose pipe and a leak underground.

I suspect that there is also a downpipe on your side based on the design of the other places in the complex. So it's possibly not just the neighbours problem.

Certainly be turning this back to the neighbour or conversely run a hard edge up the middle of the drive and just fix your side.

By the way the layour of the drive and property as per google view doesn't seem to correlate to the set back of lot 20. As such there may be some of that driveway that is actually part of common property.

That's about all I can add.

 

I think you should also be clarifying your insurance position - from the looks of the plan, your building is entirely on your lot and may not be insured by the strata/body/owners corporation?

 

Sounds like you are suffering a lot of buck passing.

The lot diagram you have posted clearly shows that the driveway is common property, and is not part of your lot.

What the neighbour thinks is irrelevant.

What the strata and OC manager says is obfuscation.

What Fair Trading says (without a hearing) is opinion.

Whether or not your tenant damaged the common property is only relevant if a complaint has been made to the Owner's Corp, and if not, is irrelevant.

What the conveyancer thinks is also irrelevant, as his/her role is to conveyance your docs on purchase, not speculate on paving.

If this driveway is actually part of your lot, and it doesn't look like it (or you could park your recently purchased BJ and the Bear replica Kenworth on it), why don't you let the neighbours know that, as a huge Prince fan, in his memory you are going to respray your lot (inc driveway) in Wattyl Purple Rain, which doesn't require any Owners Corp permission? And see what happens.

In the mean time, lodge a Fair Trading mediation (or whatever is the equivalent in WA), and won't cost much, to get the Owners Corp and/or their Committee to pull their finger out and get the issue addressed.

 

Thank you everyone. I has been very exhausting but I learn a lot of lesson in this matter.

The bodycorp manager emphasise the driveway is not common property. And that it's between me and the neighbour.

I will find out about claiming on PM negligence.

But it's the paver so far that has been updating me and can do the repairs for half the price. I just asked to rearrange and divide the driveway so this won't happen again.

I will also email the director of the real estate agent to see his opinion on this. Atm I don't put up hope he's going to side with me and readily share the expense.

 

You'd need to look at the actual strata plan to see whether any part of the driveway is common/community property and then argue for them to repair that part.

I can't see it being worthwhile chasing the PM through court for a negligence claim.
I also can't see how the neighbour can claim the damage is all your responsibility - it looks like just settlement (normal wear and tear) to me.

If either driveway was being used by a heavier vehicle it could contribute to the issue.

If it were my driveway I would be aiming to share the cost with the neighbour; and if you are going to re-pave it then get a concrete border in the middle to separate the two driveways. If there is stormwater pipe under the middle, maybe some gap (lawn) between the two driveways to allow access to that.

 

Hi Yonny,

I have had a look at the photos you supplied and the plan. The driveway is not covered by the strata common area. To add to this I would not be surprised if there was a "Special Rule" confirming this in the OC rules.

That being said the driveway is common property in the sense that it is shared by both you and your neighbor. The cost for repairs/replacement is therefore shared between yourself and your neighbor. You are entitled to come to your own arrangement with them however. I am curious have you spoken directly with the neighbor?

Claiming Property Manager negligence is going to be an uphill battle that will cost you more than the original quote to prove in court and the agent will probably just end up dropping the management and directing you to their lawyer. Neither of which will be advantageous in the short term. Sure you can go Consumer Affairs Victoria but they will just give you some run of the mill advice and tell you to lawyer up.

Just like qak said

 

Hi qak, compropagent

You guys are right, pursuing the PM is a lost battle indeed, thank you for giving me the perspective. At this stage I am writing an email to the director of the RE for him to make aware where I'm coming from. I don't expect he would do anything about it though, I'm being a typical business stereotype here I know

The neighbour complained that the problem started from my driveway which is confirmed by the paver.

For me, driveway is like fence, when fence fell down, it's a contribution of a lot of things and neighbours split the cost.

But I do need to find in the Vendor Statement the clause that says the cost is to be shared.

And qak, your suggestion on dividing the driveway is exactly what the paver and I plan to do as it's actually cheaper by more than half of the original price $7000.

The paver's idea is to rearrange my driveway and divide the driveway so it won't move again but leave the neighbours' driveway as is.
If I go this path, will I create more problems with the neighbour or should I get him to rearrange both driveways?

I haven't talked to the neighbour directly but I think I'd better give a try.

 

What does the paver say was the cause?
And if he was sourced by the agent - I would also get an 'independent' quote.

 

While I understand the confusion here, it really is your responsibility to know what part of the property is owned by whom and that is best clarified between you and the strata manager. I know PM's can be difficult but in this situation, she could only go by what she was told by the strata manager and relay that to you, which is what she's done. You're going to need a new one now but I would back off from putting the blame on her for your ignorance.
Now that you know where you stand, you yourself need to negotiate with your neighbour. Also, you will find the OC less overbearing if you attend meetings yourself in one way or another. In a strata situation, you need to participate a little in order to know what's going on and to protect the money you pay from wastage.
Interesting thread and great input from all.

 

You are right wattleido, this has been a big lesson for me.

The issue however is the neighbour did want to share the cost of the repairs initially, and that was back from 1st of March when the PM said.

Im in WA, hence I rely on PM communication, which I didn't get and I didn't fully understand what moving paving meant. The first quote came end of August.

Now I just want to make sure the RE is aware of the issue, I won't expect anything from them.

I'll ask if others know different PM in that area.

And for qak, the paver said the cause was because the bricks were laid over a big area with no edging and they were laid over a weak base, not enough depth too.

Thank you for the input guys

 

May be an idea to approach your neighbour directly and leave your email with him/her so that you can communicate directly going forward. Not that you need to communicate much when there's nothing happening, but he/she will also watch over your property by default.

 

Hi Yonny,

I would suggest that the only person at fault in relation to the driveway itself is the person that laid it. If this matter was to go to VCAT the matter would be resolved by you both splitting the bill for the repair, unless the neighbor could prove malicious intent. I also would suggest that the neighbor might just be fed up with the PM & OC manager and be more amicable if they were to deal with you direct.

 

get your PM to take a pic from the front giving the perspective for both sides of the driveway.

Looking at the pic's so far I don't think you have much settlement on your side. Neighbour can pay for his own side nothing to do with you. As mentioned previously seperate the driveway along the line of that wall and leave the neighbour to his own devises.

 

I am not allowed to get the neighbour's email nor phone number due to privacy. I did leave my email and phone number for the strata manager to pass on to the neighbour, but no contact so far.

Here is the pictures taken by the paver. The property with the car on it is mine.

I'm going to get a new PM, thinking going with Ray White Mildura based on the reviews they're getting. but I'm also going to ask others in this group is they have suggestion.

I never change PM, so I'm not sure with the process.

 

Just another thing I found out and learned, this strata complex has 33 properties, but there is no sinking fund.

 

@Yonny - looks to be torsional (twisting) damage on the pavers due to cars entering and turning their steering wheels causing the pavers to shift. Unless the pavers are laid on a concrete slab and bedded down on a mortar bed, it will recur over time if they are relaid the same way.

 

You are correct Scott, that's why the plan is to divide the driveway and put edging to stop the movement.

The original builder had been contacted but it's already out of warranty.