Dealing with Monash city council objections

Discussion in 'Development' started by nataasha, 21st Mar, 2020.

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  1. nataasha

    nataasha Member

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    Hi All,

    I need some help and guidance.

    Monash City Council is not in favour of our current plan. We have already been super conservative in our drawings and cannot really afford to lose any more space. I am definitely not open to the idea of giving up another bedroom to accommodate the garage.

    To give you more context, its a 890 sq m block and I am looking to build 3 townhouses - 4br, 3 bath,

    If you could please review and shed some light on what you think and if there are ways to get around this without losing any more land.

    The key issues are –
    1. The garage encroaching the rear setback only by 1 m or so.
    2. Townhouse 3 overshadowing dwelling 2/ xx street
    The rear setback restriction is 5m.

    Attached : Townplanning drawings.

    Has anyone been in a similar situation? Can you please guide if so?

    Do I stand a chance if I go to VCAT? Any townplanner reccomendations?

    Appreciate your help.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: 19th Jul, 2020
  2. shorty

    shorty Well-Known Member

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    Question 1 - are you sure you want to be developing right now?

    Question 2 - what zone are you in?

    I've PMd you details of a planner.
     
  3. lixas4

    lixas4 Well-Known Member

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    Also, monash council are looking to change the public open space contribution from 5% or less (three lotter is currently 2%), to 10%.

    Monash Open Space Strategy

    Make sure you factor this into your numbers, and whether you should go to vcat and risk the amendment coming into force in the meantime.

    For example, if your site value is 1m, then your public open space contribution is currently 20k, but if the amendment comes through, then it will be 100k, is the win at vcat worth more than 80k to your design?

    I suggest discussing with a planner the expected amendment timelines and work out the cost benefit of fighting councils requirements.
     
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  4. nataasha

    nataasha Member

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    Thank you. Appreciate your help :)
     
  5. nataasha

    nataasha Member

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    Hi Lixas4,

    I am aware of the 10% amendment that Monash is pushing for, but it is not enforced yet.

    Also I am looking to hold long term all on one title and not looking to subdivide or sell for atleast 5 years.

    This is a long term investment .

    Regards,
    Nataasha
     
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  6. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Does the planning code require 2 parking spaces/dwelling? Lose one or more garages and take a small hit but provide an open parking space (tandem or stacker).
     
  7. nataasha

    nataasha Member

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    Its a requirement to have a double garage of 6m by 5m if you have 4 bedrooms.
     
  8. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Lose a bedroom (oh, it's a study/office/cinema /breakout room with joinery)
     
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  9. shorty

    shorty Well-Known Member

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    I hope you have factored in holding costs, interest, Land tax, etc. I think council may still issue 4 rates notices even without subdivision.

    Will you need another planning permit when you eventually subdivide if your current one has expired? Will it comply? You might have already done your due diligence but if it was me I'd be having a good long chat with council, a property lawyer and a planner.

    Think it would be the same for 3 or 4 bedroom.
     
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  10. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Are the common walls between the garages and adjoining houses more than 270mm?
     
  11. housechopper2

    housechopper2 Well-Known Member

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    we can’t work out the issue with overshadowing without the top story floor-plan.

    you can’t move the garage up from the rear setback without loosing some space. My suggestion would be to remove the bedroom and second bath from TH2 and make that space 1m narrower calling it a second living room. That way you can pull the whole TH3 forwards (towards the road) to meet code requirements.
     
  12. lixas4

    lixas4 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh the two car onsite rule is for a dwelling with 3 or more bedrooms.

    A planning permit will be required when go to subdivide, it will include a requirement for public open space payment paid prior to the statement of compliance issue. Your subdivision plan will also be referred to all the service authorities who will need to consent. As @shorty said above, if you delay the subdivision there is a risk the service authorities requirements have changed, and you need to comply with their new guidelines. Theoretically, you 'may' be required to upgrade a service connection, although you also may not need to, noone can predict when an authority changes their rules.

    Delaying the subdivision can add risk to your title re-establishment adoptions made by your surveyor in the original survey. Until the subdivision is submitted, your surveyors title adoptions are effectively their opinion on where your title is, but do not get fixed or published to other surveyors until the subdivision is submitted. Surveyors regularly disagree on the position of title boundaries. As you are building on your northern boundary, there is a risk that a future surveyor does a survey that disagrees with your current title boundary adoptions, and as the subdivision is delayed, they don't know about your survey and title adoptions. To minimise this risk, let your surveyor know that you are delaying the subdivision, and they will (should) put a re-establishment plan into the registry which will let all other surveyors know their title adoptions, meaning it will be a lot less likely for another surveyor to disagree with your surveyors title boundary. While the above issue doesnt happen often, when it does, it can cause massive issues as a building may have been built technically into someone elses property.
     
  13. nataasha

    nataasha Member

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    Seems like something I need to think about. If I have to subdivide now I am happy to do it.$20K open space contribution doesnt bother me too much. I was busy sorting my plans out. I will investigate as soon as I have a planner on board. Thanks @lixas4 and @shorty . Appreciate your help. If you think of anything else that I need to know about please let me know. Its my first development so I am quite nervous
     
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  14. lixas4

    lixas4 Well-Known Member

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    Check with your designer if the planning application is for both the constructions of 3 townhouses AND the subdivision. Chances are its only for the former. You will need to have the subdivision permit application in before the public open space change occurs to get the current %.
     
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  15. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure of the different words used here, but we also are doing our first development of four townhouses (BCC).

    We had thought about keeping them all on one title (block of land?) and not creating body corporate now, to keep rates (and land tax?) down.

    Advice was that we should do the split and form a body corporate as soon as the townhouses are built in case the rules are changed and we somehow get stuck having to sell all four at once.

    We do want to be able to sell one townhouse at a time down the track. We also are holding for long term as these are our "pension".
     
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  16. shorty

    shorty Well-Known Member

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    You realise this is calculated on the end values, right? So 4 x say $400k land value lots = $1,600,000. 10% contribution (assuming it goes through) is $160k.

    Even at the current (I think) 4% it's $64k. Don't know where you're getting $20k from. I think you need to do a LOT more research. I don't think you have done the numbers properly.
     
  17. Tufan Chakir

    Tufan Chakir Well-Known Member

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    Difficult to assess without full drawings. But comments based on experience.
    If you've lodged without a planner, and the drawings have been done by a drafter (what it seems), you will have been "persuaded" that you only need to comply with clause 55 (Rescode) standards - the "tick box approach". Not so. Quality and neighbourhood character come into play.
    The design looks very conventional. Seems to me that there's little to merit departure from clause 55 standards, but this is what you are looking for. Would be useful to know the orientation (which way is north), look at overshadowing of secluded private open space. Design looks like it will be bulky/big - is that consistent with the street/locality? The forum won't be able to give good advice on the chance of success at VCAT - seek out an experienced (and registered) Town Planner - seek quality, not the cheapest opinion.
    Based on my experience, and without seeing more details/having more info - maybe a 50/50 chance at VCAT - I can't see exceptional merit in the proposal
     
  18. Baza

    Baza Member

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    Looking at doing something similar in Monash. They changed the rules November last year to require a 5 meter setback instead of a 3 metres. Speaking to builders and draftees in the area they say you can build either on the boundary or 5 metres from it. You’ll have to go to VCAT though. Like others have said seek advice, if I was in your shoes I’d go for the fastest resolution since time is money. You could probably do a WC instead of a bathroom in TH2 and that would give you the space.
     
  19. nataasha

    nataasha Member

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    Thanks @Baza. Resolved that issue , managed to get a good town planner to help us negotiate but now there s a new issue.
     
  20. Tufan Chakir

    Tufan Chakir Well-Known Member

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    If it can be used as a bedroom - it will be counted as a bedroom