Minor electrical work needs to be done - replace a light fitting, install new lights, make a light with a two way switch, and add a new power point for a new gas HWS. The HWS is the reason for all this. The current gas HWS has 1200 litres or so and is using a lot of gas. Also it's old, so while the plumber will cost now, in the long term I save quite a bit. As the sparky is needed for the HWS GPO I am getting the other jobs done. I have one quotation and the amounts are interesting. Instead of a callout fee of $80 and $80 an hour or similar there are discrete costs for each item Wire and install with light fittings up to 10 metres - $125.00 This is okay if there's a long wire to install, but in this case the wire is about a metre long. The switch is in place, and the job should take 20-30 minutes. Hence, the rate is $250-$375 an hour. Other items on the list are similar. The total is over $1000 for perhaps $40 in parts (conduit, 15 amp cable, screws, one light switch and one GPO) and three hours of work, maybe four. While it's simpler to quote and pay by the item, the time rates for the itemised approach are very high. Is the itemised approach common, and should I ask for an hourly rate? TIA.
Time will expand to exceed your budget. You will require a separate 20 Amp circuit for the HWS. Are you sure it is 1200L not 120L - are you running a bath house? Lights - 1 hr labour (avg) + materials doesn't sound unreasonable A quote puts the risk back on the contractor, hourly rates leaves that risk with you.
You can always ask for both, but in this situation I would propose an amount back to the sparky. My thought process. Based on the above, it looks like a a few hours work. So lets say half the day is wasted (4hrs). Residential sparky may charge $80/hr x 4hrs = $320. Put some materials with tool allowance ontop. $350-$400. Add in a little fat and profit to make it worthwhile. $450-$500. Go back to them and say I will pay you $450 for the lot, no questions asked. If they say no, go to $500. If they don't like that, work off an hourly rate and materials + 20% (small job) What you may not know is that a 1st or 2nd year apprentice may with working with the lead sparky which is very common so that it might be $80 + $50/hr.
As a former contractor (non-electrical) if you ask a contractor for a fixed quote they will calculate the rough cost of the job (keeping in mind they have no way of truly knowing all the variables involved) and then add a decent margin to cover the "unknowns". This mitigates the the very real risk of them hitting a problem and having to either do more work for free to solve it or stop the job on the spot and ask for more money - a terrible look in the eyes of the customer and something your average tradesman may do out of necessity but without much enthusiasm - ie they don't want to do this if it can be avoided. My advice would be: don't counter with a fixed price. "It should only take a few hours, I'll give you $500" is the kind of sentence I usually took as a cue to end all negotiations with a customer. These are harsh terms for a contractor to take on a job under so the kind of guy that will do it is basically desperate for bookings and willing to compromise to get them. Book that guy if you want a bargain but don't expect Lexus service or quality... Rugz mentioned requesting an hourly rate + materials + % markup. A master + apprentice can be found around the $150 per hour mark and there are enough guys willing to work under those conditions that you won't have to do too much hunting. I would recommend you counter with that if you don't like the fixed price and genuinely believe the job will turn out to be smaller.
Itemised is common. The second you ask for hourly rates expect a trade to slow down and take their time. $1000 is fair IMO, and I would hazard a guess sight-unseen it is more than the three hours of work you are suggesting. I would say he is charging you a full day + materials. If you don't like it, get more quotes to compare.
Thanks. Two lights will take about 15-20 minutes each. One has the cable in place (old light being removed, new light installed) and the other is a metre above the switch, installed earlier in anticipation of the light going on the wall. The new sensor light will need new cable, maybe an hour for this. The two way light setup will take perhaps 60-90 minutes. Inside the garage, moving a GPO down and installing a light on the brick wall will take perhaps 45 minutes, if that. The gas HWS has a 240 volt GPO, just needs a new one, 10 minutes. Total time is thus about four hours. With an apprentice this is $600 plus parts, say $650. The one quotation I have is well above this. An apprentice means that the job goes faster. I am seeking other quotations. Agreed, if I ask for an hourly rate then the risk is with me. However, most tradies work without padding the time. The gas HWS is 750 mm X 650 mm X 1640 mm. My understanding is that units this size are 1200 litres. This is why I like an hourly rate. If the contractor is honest - and I hope that most are - he or she will work diligently. If contractors want to attend and quote then they know the job, so there are no unknowns.
Even with paper thin walls, the maximum volume of a rectangular prism of that size is 0.8m3 no allowance for control gear, heating, plumbing, insulation, flue etc. Rheem Gas
Like I said, I think for that work you are going to be charged a full days work plus materials, regardless of your own timeline justifications. After 6 hours including travel most people aren't going to bank on finding a small 1hr job to do on the same day. Vote with your wallet but keep in mind more often than not you get what you pay for with trades.
