CoronaVirus - Possible Vaccines and Treatments

Discussion in 'COVID-19' started by paulF, 25th Mar, 2020.

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  1. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    I know - but some on here are carrying on as if that particular drug is the gospel saviour ... when it's not tested ... it's proven to have adverse side effects ... "may" be useful in "some" cases

    I am simply sitting in neutral territory until something proven, trialled and effective comes along
     
    Lizzie, 10th Apr, 2020
    #61
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  2. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    MTR, 10th Apr, 2020
    #62
  3. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Its very simple what @paulF said

    we dont have a vaccine yet..... its all a work in progress
     
    MTR, 10th Apr, 2020
    #63
  4. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Lizzie, 10th Apr, 2020
    #64
  5. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    Even if this is true - and it's only one doctor working in one practice without the checks and balances of a proper drug trial - there should be research done to determine if it's effective, and if it's safe. Two research projects have found significant problems, and that suggests to me that people shouldn't be so gung ho about using it.

    The way that it has been publicised has meant that people who really need the drug - like my wife - are having trouble finding it. There should not have been this sort of publicity outside of the medical community until there were some proven results.
     
    geoffw, 10th Apr, 2020
    #65
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  6. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    your opinion, your choice...

    What Paulf said, if it saves lives it matters

    bet this guy is thanking his lucky stars he took the drug it saved his life



     
    MTR, 10th Apr, 2020
    #66
  7. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    MTR, 10th Apr, 2020
    #67
  8. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Key word is "if" ... and it may have been something other than the drug that was the tipping point ... we don't know because there is no medical data
     
    Lizzie, 10th Apr, 2020
    #68
  9. Shazz@

    Shazz@ Well-Known Member

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    Define death's door? This is the danger here because everyone will have a slightly different take on this and could potentially offer this drug as solution when they may have not needed it, causing unnecessary harm.
    What if it wasn't you? What if this was one of your loved ones who was in their 30's. Dr gave them the drug and they lived somehow. Some time down the track, this person develops severe disabilities that requires full time care and life for not only that person, but for their family is severely compromised. Would you accept that? (No need to answer because everyone in this situation will feel differently)

    I can see that you and MTR are very positive people, and during this time, that's great:).

    But the problem with this post is that you are basing this on very anecdotal evidence. Whether this treatment has 'saved' or 'can save' a person from covid-19 can not be purely attributed to just the drug at this stage. This is why there are large clinical trials (with several thousand patients needed to be recruited) currently being done. These trials will test the drug on a homogeneous population and will undergo rigorous statistical testing to eliminate any confounders (variables such as age,sex, underlying conditions etc.) to truly determine whether the drug has an effect or not.

    Without knowing this, statements like 'this drug could save lives' is dangerous. i.e., a situation where patients currently on this drug who can't get access to it now.
     
    Shazz@, 10th Apr, 2020
    #69
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  10. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    It may well be that it has done good. If the drug does do a good job, then great. But trials have been abandoned because of very bad side effects - which could have even been fatal if the trial had proceeded.

    The purpose of science is to test something properly before a conclusion can be drawn. It's not enough to try it on one or two people and say that it's done great. Otherwise one doesn't know if there's a placebo effect, whether something else did the job, or if the person recovered naturally.

    Scientific studies permit comparisons to be made between people with the same symptoms, treated with different treatments, to try to eliminate false positives or a placebo effect. And they need to be extensive studies before they can be approved for general treatment (what is happening now isn't general treatment, it's specific cases where permission can be given, usually when there are gravely ill). This is what science is about - to ensure that the treatment really does work, and that any side effect is not worse than the condition itself. It's also important to establish correct dosage, if it can be shown to be effective, especially for a drug with potential dangers, and to determine if there are interactions with other commonly used drugs.

    Trump was going beyond this. He was saying that he would be taking it as a safeguard, and he advocated health care workers who were healthy to take the drug. A drug which does have side effects BTW. (My wife takes Plaquenil for her condition, and once had to go to ER due to sympoms consistent with known side effects).
     
    geoffw, 10th Apr, 2020
    #70
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  11. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    I will take my chances;)
     
    MTR, 10th Apr, 2020
    #71
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  12. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    We do it was zinc..... watch the interview
     
    MTR, 10th Apr, 2020
    #72
  13. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    The Y-man, 10th Apr, 2020
    #73
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  14. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    One thing people may not realise is that the production of drugs and vaccines are being hampered in Australia (ironically) by the shutdown of international commercial airline flights.

    One doesn't realise how much is carried in the belly of planes - until they disappear out of the skies - and all of the sudden, equipment, spare parts and consumables becomes a whole lot harder to get. Now having to rely on expensive cargo flights and extended wait to clear customs.

    The Y-man
     
    The Y-man, 10th Apr, 2020
    #74
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  15. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    It's not about being positive for me, it's about what is actually happening in the world right now. Wether you accept that or not doesnt make a difference, it's happening and I'm not the one saying these drugs could save lives, it's actual doctors.

    Tens and tens of trials worldwide is hardly anecdotal evidence. And isn't the reason for doing these trials is to see if they could save lives?

    I never advocated for anyone to take any existing drugs before it being tested, trialed and most importantly prescribed by a physician.
     
    paulF, 10th Apr, 2020
    #75
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  16. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    MTR, 10th Apr, 2020
    #76
  17. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    This is the reason for extensive trials. Perhaps it was just the zinc which did the job - these reports are about zinc treatment alone. But they are initial results only. Obviously a lot of work will be done on these and other treatments.

    At least there will be plenty of subjects for the testing.
     
    geoffw, 10th Apr, 2020
    #77
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  18. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Vit D is also showing positive a affect
     
    Lizzie, 11th Apr, 2020
    #78
  19. Shazz@

    Shazz@ Well-Known Member

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    Shazz@, 11th Apr, 2020
    #79
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  20. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    MTR, 11th Apr, 2020
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