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Complain or Conquer, is housing affordability really the issue?

Discussion in 'General Property Chat' started by albanga, 10th May, 2016.

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  1. albanga

    albanga Well-Known Member

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    Apologies in advance to anyone this post rubs the wrong way, I think this is the greatest forum on the internet and as such just wanted to get out some of my frustrations and in return hear what others have to say as I may be somewhat one eyed in my views.

    Over the past couple of months I have read so many posts regarding housing affordability and the reasons for this. I think at some point everyone has called for the government to step in and do something about housing affordability. Scrap NG, Scrap the 50% CGT discount, Scrap stamp duty, do something about foreign investors.etc.etc

    Don't get me wrong all these posts make for a great read, but the thing I can't shake is even if the government does do something will it make people happy? Or will they simply move onto the next point of blame? I basically believe relying on what a change to one of these policies will do to affordability is nothing more than speculation. I participate in this speculation discussion but do people honestly believe it is the answer to the problem?

    I believe people have 2 options. Option1, look for the government to do something which will hopefully solve a problem (If you even consider housing affordability a problem)
    OR
    And this is the point I am passionate about, realsie we are in the most golden age of opportunity thanks to the internet. Never ever has there been a time when basically anyone with a computer and the internet can earn income or upskill. I am not necessarily saying recognised by the banks, but income to go a long way towards a deposit, which is a key part of the problem.

    So many posts I have read over the past year refer to how much more affordable housing was back in the 80's, but really what opportunity did you have outside of your 9-5? It was extremely hard to earn any additional income outside of driving around the neighborhood performing letterbox drops and then all you could sell was a service or product.

    Today you can make thousands of dollars from just selling nothing more than your thoughts. Literally you can start a blog, generate a following and then be paid by advertisers.

    You don't have a skill? Well jump on youtube and learn it.
    1 month ago my wife came to me and said "I want to start making candles", I looked at her blankly, i had seen her burn a candle once but that was the extent of her candle making experience. She said yep and off she went, spent $200 on materials and then watched 10 youtube videos. 1 month on she has sold nearly $500 worth of candles with orders coming in all the time. All she did was take some photos of her work and shared it on facebook.

    O.K so $300 profit and minus the time isn't going to get you into a house but its just an example of the opportunity today. There is almost endless possibilities for those who want to cease them. You can literally earn hundreds of dollars extra a week now driving your car. The other day I sold a couch and the person picking it up paid someone on airtasker to collect it. This guy said he is flat out all for doing something he already had a trailer for and all outside of his 9-5.

    I could go on and on but my point is this, today more then every we have an opportunity to take ourselves further. I find it astonishing that people will sit around discussing endlessly how the government NEEDS to do something to fix the problem. If those people instead invested that time and energy into doing something that could earn them extra money then they would not be relying on the government, they would not be relying on speculation, they would be relying on themselves.

    This forum for example is most of us doing something! Most would prefer to scroll through facebook or watch the TV to tune into current affair to hear about how evil NG is or how the housing market is a disaster because foolA bought in a mining town. This forum however is education and I am sure if you added up the value of the education people have learnt the dollar value would be off the charts. I know this forum has made me a lot of money.

    Complain or Conquer? I think I know what I would rather do.
     
  2. jins13

    jins13 Well-Known Member

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    I feel that instead of complaining about it, people can take ownership and do something about it. When I was saving up for my first place, I tightened my belt (no holidays, no useless spending) and worked additional hours plus 2nd job to save up. I think people are kidding themselves if they think they can accomplish things in life by doing exactly like everyone else. I still work every day with abit of Uber driving to improve my skills in dealing with people from all background and study 2 tertiary courses, so really I have very little sympathy. I know my high school buddies think that I 'failed' in life because I moved out of the northern beaches, but considering what I achieved in comparison to them and the life lessons I learned from people from all wakes of life, I am grateful to everyone.
     
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  3. larrylarry

    larrylarry Well-Known Member

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    I met a family who recently migrated to Australia. Wife has a job and that's great. He just finished his career in his home country and job search has been difficult for him but that's not going to get him down. He started doing some flyers, delivering parcels and now driving Uber. They are renting. I have not heard any complaint from him so far. He is adaptable and just keeps moving on. I believe he will succeed, just a matter of time.

    I also buy firewood from this young man for the last 2 winters, he's probably like 23 years old now. He works full time, study part-time and sells and delivers firewood leading up to winter. Last winter, he came with his little brother (5 years old) and that little boy helped his brother with unloading some lighter woods. I was so impressed. My kids who are a bit older were equally impressed. They came from a family of 8. He didn't complain about having to work during the wintery nights.

    Is this man complaining? Thanks for paying for my house He did own an art deco apartment...

    The truth is, the government cannot fix every problem but can strive to be more equitable...that doesn't mean no one will lose out. I guess it depends who you are comparing yourself with.
     
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  4. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    I think the issue today is housing affordability for CHOICE AREAS WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE.

    Our first home in the 1970s was in a very outer suburb of Brisbane. Brick, 3 bed and 1 bath which we built, so no driveway, gardens or carpet. Friends joked they needed a cut lunch if they wanted to drive to see us. But it was what we could comfortably afford. We worked hard to improve it and pay down the mortgage so that after five years were able to afford to move to where we still live today.

    Now even first home buyers want an inner city suburb with large living spaces. Of course they are going to struggle to afford it unless on very well paying jobs and prepared to take on a huge mortgage. Then whinge about how unfair life is and how "easy" things were back in the 1980s.
    Marg
     
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  5. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

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    I grew up in the country where government take very little care of "fixing" things. People get really creative when their life depended on it. No work today means no food to eat today.

    I have been asked by a 6-7 years old kids, they beg for money when I was a teenager - the money for their yearly public school tuition worth about AUD3-5 back then. They even offered to help me bringing groceries to get paid. I don't say society should have gotten to this point, but I have no sympathy for those who earn enough money to get somewhere and complain about not being able to afford a Bondi beach apartment.
     
    Last edited: 10th May, 2016
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  6. Wukong

    Wukong Well-Known Member

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    First world problem, Australia is top 20 in terms of purchasing power parity. One can always say the few countries above us have things easier.

    However, for all the migrants who come to this country (the other 160 countries below Australia) for a better life and opportunity, Australia is great compared to the low income levels, high property prices, high crime levels, lack of welfare, health and education system etc in their home country.

    I ignore the noise in the media, it's all about sensationalism. I rather focus on being productive :)
     
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  7. Leo2413

    Leo2413 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    @albanga great post mate.

    Personally, I believe ultimately nothing will change. The ratio of the (as you put it ) Conquers vs Complainers will be largely the same going into the future.

    It has been, and always will be very, very hard for the masses in Australia and in other similar developed countries to have that 'AHA' moment and finally come to the absolute realisation/acceptance that the power to completely change their lives resides within themselves.
     
  8. RiMo

    RiMo Well-Known Member

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    People love to compare and that is the crux of the problem. What they don't have. What they can't do. What they're missing out on. This victim mentality is oh so attractive because it is far easier to complain than to actually do something that can make a real difference. Comparison is really an act of violence against the self.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: you cannot compare your beginning to someone else's middle or end. How useless is it to compare your life to others? You don't know what they've been through. You don't know how they got there. All this comparison about things that are different today than they were before (loan accessibility, interest rates, house prices, NG, stamp duty, employment, etc) are outside your control anyway. Doesn't matter how many property graphs, statistics, threads, or discussions we have in this forum. NONE of it will make a smidgen of difference to an individual's situation. Rather than focusing on the things you cannot change, you might as well concentrate on things you can change: yourself and the things you can do. Get creative, get smart, rise to the challenge. Stop comparing. Stop complaining.

    Don't look to the government for change. Don't begrudge what others have.
    Look in the mirror: that's your number one enemy; that's your competition; and that's also your way out.
     
  9. Ran Gus

    Ran Gus Well-Known Member

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    Why does it have to be one or the other?

    Disregarding the completely loaded words you've used in the thread title: why are you unable to play by the current rules and get on with life, while simultaneously arguing/advocating for change?

    The entire point of a discussion forum is to debate ideas and discuss current issues. It doesn't mean everybody who has an issue with certain aspects of the housing market are sitting around doing nothing and waiting for changes to happen.

    Some people might be, but they probably aren't on this forum (and are usually the ones that many of you love to generalize about, aka 'this whole generation is just like some woman who was on 60 minutes last night!').
     
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  10. wogitalia

    wogitalia Well-Known Member

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    We have a generation now that is working far more to be poorer, there is a massive disconnect in that sentence that no one should be happy with. Generation Y is the first generation where it is living to work instead of working to live and it's because of how expensive a need has been driven to be by government protectionist policies that have massively distorted a market that shouldn't have such heavy handed government influence.

    Your ideas are great for someone like you who is into the phase of life where your wife has the free time and cash to be able to start a candle making business, where you own a car that is new enough and you have the free time to actually uber but for those graduate employees everywhere working 80 hour weeks to earn 50k a year all these "great" options just don't exist. As a graduate accountant I was "expected" to work from 8-8, once you throw in the 3 hours of commute I had about 30 minutes a day to myself, I was actually one of the better ones because I was good enough to not have to work weekends as well.

    You call it complaining because you don't like the voice of change because it goes against your vested interests. For those who are on the other side of the fence though it's just petitioning change, as you can see from the very equitable changes to super that have been budgeted, that "complaining" can achieve things and make Australia a fairer place for all.

    Again, why do you expect this current generation to be the one that should work twice as hard to buy half as much and better yet why would you expect them to accept that?
     
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  11. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

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    Big difference between complaining and doing something and ONLY complaining without doing anything.

    My sister is an accountant. 8-8 working was her normal day. During busy time it is 8-2/3am and unfortunately it is the norm in the industry. It is not the norm everywhere. She was miserable. She moved to London, find more flexible work and now travel while doing work and enjoying her time. It is not for everyone and heck she is doing something that is within her capacity to do.
     
  12. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    Let them complain! More complainers means less buyers and more renters :p

    It is a fact that houses were cheaper before capital gains tax and negative gearing, so both should be scrapped! :)

    I agree about stamp duty though. It would better from a government point of view to have an ongoing income stream rather than a series of one off, infrequent payments.

    Nope.

    Well, I just bought another investment property, so I guess it's obvious which category I fall into :p

     
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  13. Leo2413

    Leo2413 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    An evil capitalist.
     
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  14. albanga

    albanga Well-Known Member

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    @wogitalia my wife is a payroll officer working in the CBD 5 days a week. We both get up at 6.30am and get home at 6pm. I then walk the dogs whilst she prepares dinner, we sit down and eat together, tidy and are done by 7pm.
    I also never mentioned my wife also has a side beauty business that she also sees clients at her house which admittedly she is doing less off but none the less she makes herself an extra $50 a week doing that.

    It's also worth noting that I have absolutely zero vested interest in any government policies regarding property. No change will personally effect me or my current situation.
     
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  15. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    :)

    Another way to look at it is that I have bought something that is not very valuable now, because it is considered a 2x1 due to issues with the floor plan. My plan is to convert it into a proper 4x2, which will increase the value and at the same time create a lovely family home for a family to live in (at an increased rent of course).

    Which is I guess the point of this thread... if you are prepared to work, you can make money.
     
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  16. Leo2413

    Leo2413 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    And so we go round and round and round. A blames B and B blames C, D and E.

    And F is saying..hang on..hang on... While your all articulating so well who is to blame and how to 'fix' things, you've gone from 25-65 years old being no better off..

    While the other group G, H, I, J, K and L have trekked a different path and now 65 years old have ended up in a vastly different place in life than their counterparts.
     
  17. RiMo

    RiMo Well-Known Member

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    This type of thread almost always end up being a class war of one generation against another. This one certainly doesn't disappoint. There is always some who accuse others of generalization and vested interest and yet they're the ones who love to stereotype and pigeon-hole people into their appropriate boxes. Boomer vs the Ys, Xers vs the millenials, the rich vs the poor, etc etc.

    Do you know what's even more unattractive than comparing and complaining? it's self pity
     
    Last edited: 10th May, 2016
  18. wogitalia

    wogitalia Well-Known Member

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    As I said, it's easy when you've got 6 hours a day of free time like you and your wife do to think that things like Uber are some great game changer that make it acceptable that we as a generation should work more for less than previous generations. For what it's worth, I'm on the same schedule as you now (as are pretty much all my mates) and I agree, there are a ton of ways that people in our position can supplement our income but do we really want to live in a country where our 30 somethings should have to be ubering for 20 hours a week so they can afford a deposit to buy a house, where we need both parents working full time jobs to pay the mortgage? Are things really better now that we work longer hours, can afford less things and have a crappier house than the previous generations did so that we can give tax breaks to the most well off in society? Is that really a win for Australia or were things better when a single average wage could buy a well located house and mum could actually raise the children? When someone at 25 working full time could actually buy a decent house without needing wealthy parents?

    I guess do we want a whole generation that has to live to work or should we be aspiring that each generation should work less and have more? Do we want create unnecessary levels of adversity for future generations so that we can siphon tax dollars towards the wealthiest? Do we really want a system where our tax dollars go to those who can afford to get them back rather than those who can't? Would we not be better spending billions on education, health and advancement AND making housing more affordable for everyone than spending billions on putting proportionately more wealth into the hands of the wealthiest?
     
  19. albanga

    albanga Well-Known Member

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    Admittedly my subject was a bit heavy handed, apologies as I was frustrated at the time reading another article about affordability.

    This topic was more around opportunity. I really believe now more than ever our generation has opportunities allowing them to succeed more than ever past those that choose not to. We have global reach now within seconds, we can educate ourselves on any subject we choose to.

    And no doubt my comments are a generalisation where some simply do not fall into a category of opportunity but there are also many that do. My post is aimed more towards these people and at that to actually many of my friends and family who CHOOSE to just get by.
    We ALL work, we all commute, we all have families to some capacity. Some people will use all these as barriers some will use these as an opportunity.
     
  20. Plutus

    Plutus Well-Known Member

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    Yay, another "kids these days" thread. I'm sure this one will achieve a different outcome /s. OP took 10+ paragraphs to say "work smarter, not harder!". Well done.
     
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