Census 2016

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by bob shovel, 28th Jul, 2016.

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  1. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    So... nothing in the mailbox today. I tried the login number for the trial we did months ago, but it doesn't work. I cannot get through, but have only tried about six times so far.

    Has everybody received their login details in the mail yet?
     
  2. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty important that people take the Census seriously and answer as accurately and honestly as possible.

    This is because it is the basis for planning at all levels of government and also for a lot of private organisations trying to assist and support people in our community.

    Please don't use it as an opportunity to 'stick it' to the government or be the star at your next BBQ.

    This type of democratic information gathering is important stuff.

    Funding, staffing levels, priorities and all sorts of things that affect our lives, and those of our loved ones, are guided by the Census results.

    The principles behind it, and the process, are amazing.

    Let's do it justice.
     
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  3. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Haha true! You need to be worried about the stuff they're NOT telling you i reckon. Pretty sure i got probed by asio one time or fell on some lego after a big night. Not sure but something went down that night:oops:
     
  4. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    Wylie you can get through on the phone after midnight, I hear.
     
  5. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    I completely agree, but they've undermined the entire process by taking the choice on anonymity away from the public. Certainly a lot of this information is available via data matching, but this is literally putting it all in one place. To suggest that this data is 'secure' is a joke and there are plenty of organisations that will pay well to access it. After all, the ABS does already make a lot of money selling data from previous census'.

    My intention is to log in using a VPN (no need to connect my home address to my IP address, they'll get that from my ISP if they want to work for it) and filling it in honestly - except for my name.
     
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  6. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    The names/addresses will never be released and will be destroyed by 2020 at the latest. The following link explains it:

    Privacy, confidentiality & security

    The ABS does sell information extracted from the Census, and people often pay for custom reports. However, they cannot purchase your identifying information.

    Also, we can all use Census data. If the basic tables don't meet your needs, there is a free Tablebuilder tool on the ABS site that lets you combine datasets in interesting ways.

    Yes, you can pay for this type of service, but you don't have to - for a lot of the information.
     
  7. Stoffo

    Stoffo Well-Known Member

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    I agree Joynz :)
    But, Peter is also right ;)

    Surely between my Tax return, Centrelink, Medicare and school enrolment's they can develop a strategy ???

    I feel that a lot more people will "not be entirely honest" purely on the basis that it is now seen "no longer to be anonymous" :eek:

    I personally feel that GovCo will be DATA MATCHING the cr*p out of it to find some convoluted way to screw an extra dollar out of the public (for yet another Pay Rise/Super Funding/Royal Commission/Junket :mad: !!)
     
  8. Tattler

    Tattler Well-Known Member

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    I filled in the census today, just in case that their server cannot handle the load tomorrow.

    I filled in my name and my family members name as is, given I have nothing to hide anyway.

    If government wants to catch people, they can just do data matching from across different sources.
     
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  9. Dan Donoghue

    Dan Donoghue Well-Known Member

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    Same, did mine tonight and answered honestly, my information was out there long before this, I have never hidden my identity online
     
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  10. Dan Donoghue

    Dan Donoghue Well-Known Member

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    I believe you have until sept 30, if you have the time just keep dialling until you get through :)
     
  11. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    I agree, but they can't guarantee that their data security won't ever be breached.

    Many years ago I worked for the company that was managing the White and Yellow Pages databases as a software engineer. I had direct access to the code on those databases. Access is fully logged and very restricted.

    Despite this, with code level access I could have very easily made a copy of every piece information in those databases. The names, addresses, entire history of every phone line in the country. Including yours, mine, the Prime Ministers, classified military phone lines, restricted addresses, absolutely everything. Imagine what some people would do with that information - criminals, corporations, foreign governments...

    ...And I could have done it all with complete anonymity. Access to the live databases was heavily logged, but we regularly made copies of portions of the databases for test purposes without any discrimination of the data. How test environments were used was not logged.

    I imagine that 20 years later security protocols are far superior but there is no way the ABS can guarantee 100% security of this information. It is vulnerable simply because it exists. A snapshot of Australia is a good and useful thing, but they don't need to put individual names on it.
     
    Last edited: 9th Aug, 2016
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  12. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks Angel. I got through about 6.50 and now have my log in number for tomorrow.
     
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  13. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    So what if someone finds out that I live in a particular street? They can get that from the phone book!

    As to my ethnic background, age, income band etc, well there's nothing really private there either.

    Anyone who gets my business card could easily figure out my salary!

    It's not like anyone is getting my medical history, or my bank account number, or my actual money...

    I'm more worried about my health insurer being hacked. Now that would be a violation of privacy.
     
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  14. Ouga

    Ouga Well-Known Member

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    When it's dark outside, do you close your curtains?
    If so, why do you? You have nothing to hide after all.

    Placing faith in the ABS to ensure the integrity of the data is an absolutely ridiculous idea.
    In fact, I am not the one saying it:

    Nocookies

    When it gets hacked, this will end in tears. Also, what do we know of the future? Who can say what will happen? Will we find ourselves at war? Tensions are certainly building up in various parts of the globe. How would we feel if this information was hacked by a foreign (enemy) government?

    I am not comfortable with the ABS collecting this information and the fact it is nominative is the big issue here. How is it suddenly important for the ABS to have this?
     
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  15. Beanie Girl

    Beanie Girl Well-Known Member

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    Article in The Age/SMH today by Anna Johnston, former deputy privacy commissioner of NSW.
    Excerpts below.

    Why I won't be filling in the census

    Dear Magistrate,

    In case the ABS is prosecuting me for non-completion of this year's census, I thought I should explain to you my reasons why I have decided that a boycott is the only moral position I can take.

    The short version is this: Yes to a national snapshot. No to detailed data-linking on individuals. That's not what a census is for.

    I have wrestled with what my personal position should be. I am normally a fan of the census. It has an important role to play in how we as a people are governed.

    .........................................................

    Although there are certainly heightened privacy and security risks of accidental loss or malicious misuse with storing names and addresses, the deliberate privacy invasion starts with the use of that data to create a Statistical Linkage Key (SLK) for each individual, to use in linking data from other sources.

    Please don't believe that SLKs offer anonymity. SLKs are easy to generate, with the same standard used across multiple datasets. For example, Malcolm Turnbull would be known by the SLK URBAL241019541 in the type of datasets the ABS wants to match Census data against, including mental health services (yes, mental health!) and other health records, disability services records, early childhood records, community services records, as well as data about housing assistance and homelessness.

    Anyone with access to these types of health and human services datasets can search for individuals by generating and searching against their SLK. All you need to know is their first and last names, gender and date of birth.

    Now tell me that privacy will be absolutely protected if census data is coded and linked using an SLK as well.

    Never mind four years; the ABS could destroy all the actual name and address data after only four days or four seconds – but if they have already used it to generate an SLK for each individual census record, the privacy damage has been done.

    .........................................................................

    I have thought about just refusing to provide my name. But even if I don't give my name, if the ABS is determined to link my census data with other datasets, there would be enough other information in my census answers (sex, age, home address, previous home address, work address) to let them proceed regardless. It won't be enough to protect my privacy.

    So until the ABS reverses its decision to match census data about individuals with other datasets about individuals, I am not going to answer the Census questions at all.

    I am sorry, Your Worship. I don't like being forced to choose, because I believe Australians deserve to have both good quality statistical data for government decision-making, AND their privacy respected. But on Tuesday night, I will choose privacy.

    The census should be a national snapshot, not a tool for detailed data-linking on every individual. Now convict and fine me if you disagree.

    Yours sincerely, Anna Johnston

    Anna Johnston is the Director of Salinger Privacy, and a former deputy privacy commissioner of NSW.
     
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  16. Ouga

    Ouga Well-Known Member

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  17. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    So what if an enemy country gets access to our addresses? Do they choose which streets to bomb based on the average income levels of different sides of the street or if we live next door to a Buddhist family, I don't think it would make much difference. We gave honest answers when we submitted ours on Sunday. I don't care about data matching any more. Twenty-five years ago I would have been scarred to death of such stuff. But after a while you get used to it. Older age mellows many useless, uncontrollable concerns. I thought "they" had access to all our medical records, ATO and Centrelink files years ago.
     
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  18. Casteller

    Casteller Well-Known Member

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    Every census I ever filled in in Australia (over 4) was never collected and ended up in the bin so I wouldn't put too much faith in the results.
     
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  19. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Troy Hunt is an Australian security consultant who travels the world educating people about website security. He also runs one of the world's largest databases of website security breach data which he maintains as a way for individuals to quickly check whether their accounts on many websites have been breached - Have I been pwned? Check if your email has been compromised in a data breach

    Also, Troy was a member of Somersoft, which is how I got to know him :D

    Here are his views on the census - which I largely agree with, although I think he does gloss over some of the privacy issues a little bit, since they don't apply to him personally.

    What you should and shouldn't worry about when you complete today's census

    There's a lot of people getting themselves worked up about the Australian census whose five-yearly cycle falls due today. For the most part, it's like any other normal census we've done ever since I can remember, but what's changed this year is the duration for which names and addresses will be retained against the census answers.

    There are some good reasons to question the whole thing, plus some good reasons why it's really a non-event. Let me share my view of things.

    ...

    Summary
    Where the ABS has really struggled on this issue is in explaining why data such as names needs to be retained at all. I was just listening to Michael McCormack on the news this morning and the reporter was grilling him on this question. All he could do was revert to political misdirection and play the Chewbacca defence as he went off on a tangent about tracking life expectancy. But this is a messaging problem rather than an indication of actual privacy issues.

    Despite the noise coming via the social channels I follow, I doubt this whole issue will have much impact on how people fill out the census. There'll be a few who rebel and go all Jedi on it (see what I did there?) or refuse to provide personal info or even leave the country to avoid it (you know your comings and goings from the country are still recorded, right?) but for the most part, no impact. I'll fill it out accurately and legally because in the broader scheme of privacy, it's a non-event.​
     
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  20. Ghoti

    Ghoti Well-Known Member

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    The lines are "open" from 7.00am to 10.00pm. I had no luck yesterday and so far no luck today.

    Can only assume the letter went out with the junk mail.