Avoiding Hidden Commissions: Property Spruikers

Hi "Excalibur1",

Re: Building a database and kicking things off with our own research - not to worry, its in the works!

Again, we are a group of uni students (some experienced professionals at a post-grad level with experience in audit - Big 4, financial services, real estate and development, some undergraduate). As far as handing out names on the internet - we know what spruikers are like. They will find that drunk photo of us and convince all their spruiker friends that we just can't be trusted! Especially when we probably have a sack of cask wine next to us - not a good look.

Regarding this being covered off, we can unfortunately bet our collective life savings (not much) on you being wrong there, but one day we hope this will be true. There are hundreds of these shonks peddling their shifty wares on a daily basis, the world over.

As far as who is right and who is wrong - There is no subjectivity, fortunately. You are wrong if you receive money as an adviser, in connection with your dealings with a client or member of the public, and you do not disclose this clear conflict of interest to them so that they can make a more informed decision. Anyone who says otherwise is, well, let's not be too delicate here - they are a crook.

As far as taking money off Henry Kaye is concerned, while I am sure that there are quite a few people who would like to see his wallet lighten, we would end up being pretty compromised if we took hidden commissions while you we, you know... rail against taking hidden commissions.

You might want to read up a bit more about what we are doing and how we are going about it on our el-cheapo site.

Hope this covers off on some of you queries.

Cheers!
OBP

 

Hi Peter,

Given that we don't really want to get involved in the real estate profession, we might just skip the licensing requirements for real estate service provision and save our precious few bucks to pay for a decent site!

Regarding what they are licensed in or what array of services the provide - we aren't all that concerned. What we do want is for those who are providing advice to declare exactly how and how much they earn in connection with their dealings with a client (whatever name they choose to give the conflicted payments they receive).

Re: Blogging and journalism, there is quite a bit of nonsense out, there! It was also a bit of a joke (will wave the sarcasm sign next time).

Jenman is quite a character isn't he - we think he is a teeny bit obnoxious however. We will try and steer clear of too much controversy and just provide the facts based on our research (including when we can't obtain any info).

Anyone want to help take down the dodgy spruikers? Get on board, we would love your support.

Cheers!
OBP

 

I still don't understand how you can know if someone is receiving commissions, unless you have intimate knowledge about it. Most of those are classed as marketing costs, and you wont know it unless you get to see the books of each of those property advisers.
I'm from business analysis background and would love to help you take those people down, but I know it is near impossible. If I know how to hide those type of transactions that not even internal or external auditors cant find I can guarantee that they employ people who are 100 times more skilled than me so that others don't see them either. One way they do it is that developers of those projects pay commissions/consulting fees to a completely third party which is in no way related to the property advisers, yet somehow they still are able to access those funds.

As I mentioned previously the idea of helping people is good and nobody here will discourage you from it. What we are doing is questioning your "business" plan. All good business plans need t be taken apart so you can see where the weakness are so that you can go back and fix them.

As I mentioned previously there is no point in creating something that is already available. You would be just doubling up. You and your team might as well join this or any other property forum and start contributing to it. Create a thread on property advisers if there isn't one already (although I think there is).

While yes I might believe you that you wont take money from Henry, but how are other people going to believe that? I think your "business" plan has a lot of holes in it. And this is why I don't think it will work unless you make changes to it. You would also need a large amount of traffic coming through your site to make it worthwhile. Joining this forum and contributing to it will build your credibility or goodwill. Which is what most of business owners on this forum do. From this forum/SS I got a lawyer, surveyor, accountant and various other contractors.... I used their services because I liked what they contributed and how knowledgeable they are in their areas of expertise. Also none of those people are anonymous. If I was promoting a website/business i wouldn't be called "Excalibur1" either but I would use my real name and my contact details to build relationship with my "clients/customers".

 

Hi Excalibur,

We use the term 'commission' to represent what the payment in reality is. We have seen a whole lot of invoices with a range of descriptions on them - the substance doesn't change. What we are concerned about, at the end of the day, is that conflicted payments are being made. We have a good team of industry professionals (post-grads) and undergraduates together with expertise in a range of disciplines, but what we could use help with is spreading the word that these shonks are out there each day trying to con investors (and succeeding).

Regarding their level of sophistication, you must have had some experience with some pretty sophisticated and shifty individuals if they have bothered to go to such lengths to disguise an already hidden payment when it is not in fact illegal (yet!). What we can tell you from our own experience is that these guys really aren't that clever (thank goodness) - we will go for the low hanging fruit first, and then tangle with the A-class drongos that you refer to later.

As far as doubling up goes - the more effort expended on ridding the industry of bad practices the better. It's still a shambles - we can assure you. We do appreciate your concern that we might waste a few hours a week that could be better spent at the bar. But jokes aside - no one is going after these guys publicly with no agenda other than to see them gone - at least not with the passion that we are!

You have given us a few ideas to help improve our service though (thanks - we will be sure to come back here and attribute the inspiration to you once they are up). We will definitely try and make it better over time - ideas are welcome.

Re: Traffic, perhaps is we were a social networking site yes - lucky for us, one person who avoids getting clawed in by a spruiker a week is enough to keep us happy for now - a modest goal that we (from the look of our inbox already) will easily be able to achieve.

We promise that we will let spruikers names and shame us with all those photos they find of us passed out from playing goon-of-fortune in the near future - we will give them a broad target for now. Nothing frustrates a spruiker like not knowing who exactly they need to vent their spruiker fury at!

Cheers
OBP

 

Hi Simon,

- Nope, uni assignments don't generally involve putting students in the firing line of a dodgy but well resourced industry (PhD's excepted of course);
- A series of unfortunate pub crawls;
- Direct interaction with spruikers while working day jobs in construction / RE / financial services, encounters with affected individuals and having a moral and ethical compass;
- A bunch of concerned young'uns - it took over a year for us to act on the concept; and
- It's pretty organic - we are constantly soliciting assistance from anyone who will provide it. Re: a team leader - whoever is least drunk and within arms reach of a laptop!

Cheers
OBP