Are all Billionaire Property developers Aceholes?

5 years ago I would have said “Surely not”
My strata management company was boycotted by the big end of town developers as we don’t pay kickbacks, we don’t “entertain” developers and if the building has faults we will engage lawyers to sue the developer if not fixed in a timely and competent manner. But surely that’s not every developer?
I changed from being a land banker to a developer about 5 years ago and a number of things came to my attention. All these companies are house hold names with one being a top 10 richest Australian Family and another I will mention as they have fled overseas and are wanted by Police.
These are nothing to do with strata management, simply stories between myself and neighbours.

1. Box Hill. Jean Nassif of Top Place was required to buy some 350 square metres off me, of land adjacent to Box Hill Central zoned 3B Business for a 6 storey shopping centre. We met at his offices and his lawyer did the talking. I would have lost 1 block of land from my subdivision worth about $750,000 if zoned residential. His lawyer offered me $14,000 for the parcel of land and offered to pay all legals. I was shocked and rejected the offer.
He told council I was demanding an unreasonable amount and council rerouted the existing roads at a cost of many millions to favour the shopping centre.
2. Box Hill. Same land there was a strip of land 7 metres wide that I needed to complete my 23 metre wide land and subdivide into 13 blocks. I was happy to sell my 13 blocks nearly complete for $2 million, one of Australia’s largest builders offered me $500,000 to add it to their land. They offered me their land for $2 million, despite their parcel being less than 1/3 of the size of mine. I had no choice but to pay the highest price ever paid per square metre in Box hill for a raw site to finish my development as they wouldn’t agree to a land swap agreement.
3. Rouse Hill. One of Australia’s richest families asked for $600,000 in cash for me to remove the fence so we can build a road at our cost which we both needed and then we would put the fence back up. This delayed our project by two years, when we had no choice they simply developed the land the following week and didn’t need the fence up after the payment was made.
4. Box Hill. Different Block. My neighbour asked if he could knock down my driveway, letterbox and garage as his DA depended on it. I spoke to my tenant, reduced his rent and said ok for $10,000 as in future I will probably need some assistance. Since then they have needed my land for parking, for storage of materials and I have had to remove my fence all at no charge. I now require them to tar 4.5 metres of their road which I am happy to pay for at my own cost.
They’re happy for me to pay for the cost of tarring the road if I pay them a $1,540,000 administration fee.
So what am I to think are these billionaire property developers just simply misunderstood nice guys?

 

Yep many and more hopefuls are.
I've hinted at such in posts like these

These people have much influence with many gov paid shills "in their pocket".
In my younger I heard many stories i thought were a little too outrageous to be true.
Now I know better.

I could post many strange situations though that may attract unwanted legal attention and subpoenas. Australia has no freedom of speech or guaranteed in any written document, and the courts act accodringly.


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I deal with the top end of town in a different capacity. From what I have observed at meetings everyone around them bows down to them. I.e there tax agents, staff etc. So it’s a completely different perspective of reality they might have.

 

When money doesnt matter anymore the only way to keep score is by winning?

 

Nothing new about those issues @Car tart, it's all about the price that you pay for the land, the development costs have little bearing on the feasibility.

Don't think that various levels of government are squeaky clean either, in essence the deals are done in the background and councillors will declare their conflicts of interest (abstain from discussion and voting) with the agenda items passing uncontested.

I've had small wins against developers (when wearing my Crown), the developer wanted to modify an agreed easement so I pushed for a change to the payment for the use of the easement upon possession rather than at the end of the project. Developer would have liquidated the company prior payment if all properties had settled so compensation received would have been $nil, I just put a hole in their budget brining payment forward by several years. My colleagues were stunned that we could do that and their solicitors not too impressed. They wouldn't let me push for additional compensation.

 

100% agree.....what makes it even more problematic is a lot of pollies are doing the bidding of these guys.

The other issue is things are not old school anymore..where a person's word was what they lived by. I see this a lot on my dealings...the level of greed and entitlement no matter how much money they have.

 

I can’t believe that. What’s going on inside their head?

 

I've heard their influence is 'assisted' by OMCG.

 

Many people I've come across seem to be that way.
It's not the money, they need to feel they got the better of the deal or something over the other person. Even if it's a few bux. Interesting to negotiate with.

I think this belongs in the joke section...

I reckon the idea that this has changed is nostalgic misguidance.
The problem for them is many more little ants looking for crums. They can't do much harm but you still feel the bite.

 

In my handful dealings with billionair, its about winning and $$ is the score. Even if its $10, $5, or 1 cent

The other side must lose points / $$ for you to win.

I mean at around $20-$50m, or even $200m means you can stop and share more. To be a billionaire you have to be wired a bit differently

 

100% agree…if your a small developer and they can hold of you doing a project etc until you agree to their unreasonable demands they win…they got the money just to prove a point.… its all about control. In fact a HWI told me recently he will win either way as the land will go up in value until the other party finally agrees..

 

Oh, i forgot the answer.
No, not "all billionairs or HWI 100m+ .
Many, yes.
Many are the opposite and good to deal with. None are pushovers or slack negotiators IME though, which is different.
And all were higly motivated and enjoyed the process.

 

Can’t agree.
Myself and many of my friends are HWI. Other than peeking in my garage you wouldn’t know. We’re average people who had good investment habits.
The difference between a HWI and a billionaire is near enough to a $Billion is an often quoted phrase.
Making billions is very hard and I believe I would have had to give up my family, stiff my friends, robbed my ex wife and been dishonest to achieve it in my lifetime as a real estate investor.

 

You are right everyone is different and a few experiences should not form my opinion on all HWI. To your point on billionaires. I’ve been a fly on the wall at board meetings with one of the richest developers in Australia and I can confirm what you’re saying based on this observation, they pushed everyone away and did everything to make it to the top.. I wonder what life would be like…


Btw…Congratulations on your sucess, I have read your story before and it was very inspiring...

 

People do this for much less than millions, billionaires are not isolated cases. Just more ambitious.

 

Thanks for sharing this. Around 15 years back I worked for a man worth around half a billion. I worked for a year right next to him managing his stock portfolio. I was able to observe him pretty closely, business and personal calls.

He made most of his money through supplying product to hospitals. He was well over 60 but would never miss a day, never late. He was a self-absorbed a-hole, and everyone in his life was paid to be there, including family. He knew it and they knew it. He always had a few lawsuits running. He spent a lot of his day complaining on the phone. He was unreasonable and sensitive to the slightest issue.

 

I personally know one very rich guy. Complete ****head.
Though I thought that about him before he became rich too.

 

It depends on people.Don't take my words for it.
I have seen both up to $100m HWI but it is very small sample I have encounter.
Some HWI are very grounded. Others are up themselves once they got rich.

 

One of his friends/associates once confided in me - said he had disagreed with him once and been cut out financially, took him ages to work his way back in.

Yes most regular corporate workers are beholden to bosses, and of course we are pragmatic about being on the bosses good side. But it is really next-level when you are dealing with the circle around a billionaire. If I really fall out with my boss I can always get another comparable job. But if you're rolling with a billionaire like that, that's all you got. They own you. There is no HR function, no transparent calculation of your bonus. It all just comes down to how they feel about you at a given point in time.

 

I guess that means they own you. Easy just walk away. Or don’t and accept that they own you.