Addicted to Investing

Ok a little background

So somewhere a while back we passed our definition of having enough. Until that point Life made sense – I loved investing and had made it my job for over a decade, my wife enjoyed working and we were striving towards a goal of financial independence. Our actions our goals aligned. Live life, do what you enjoy, have a family, don’t think too much – sweet.

But reaching the goal of having enough sort of screwed things up for me mentally. Actually we went a fair bit past the goal before we really had to recognise the goal was done and dusted.

Tried increasing spending more, to extend the 'enough' goal posts. This is a whole different thread on mental issues around money – but end of day we couldn’t change our stripes of what felt like reasonable consumption. I think it really hit home when my eldest daughter wanted to leave expensive private school and do year 11 at the local college with her old public primary school friends. Dad I know where I’m happy and its not at this fancy school and the youngest was sick of travelling – she just wanted to be home with her friends. They saw it so much quicker and clearer than us – a paradigm shift in spending was beyond even our kids let alone us. Excessive spending can alienate you from your old friends and extended family and you may not like the new acquaintances you meet that much as replacements.

We come up with a new goal – give money away. There’s a noble goal to justify investing with a passion.

Set up a Private Ancillary Fund. Wife quit her job and took charge of bequests. I was happy as a pig in mud. Shielded personal capital gains from government coffers, Zero tax environment to really enhance investment returns and just a 5% drag on earnings for noble cause, Investment obsession once again justified. Hmmm didn’t work so good. Wife soon disillusioned and returns to job as teacher of disadvantaged kids as much more rewarding pursuit – she’s much happier and enjoys the job even more now because of the little adventure. However I’ve lost my justification again for Investment obsession. Found no interest in the bequest side of PAF myself – Gave it all away in lump sums so we could close the PAF. At least the PAF exercise put a big dent in the non-super funds so the ‘enough goal’ is back in play to an extent as justification – but determined to think about it more this time before it slips by again.

I feel there is a need for a goal to justify why I spend time on investing and not on other more worthy things. I think this is my core difficulty.

I also know I love the mental stimulation from investing. I could probably replace this stimulation with other pursuits – but do “I” want too? I know there are other more worthy pursuits – but what do I really want? Do I just want to invest – can I be happy with investing for no other reason than because that’s what “I” enjoy. Do I need a goal other than because I enjoy it? I’m a bit envious of my wife at this stage doing what she really enjoys plus it being something that is obviously worthwhile for society.


Any rate – told you I’m screwed up – turns out money don’t buy you mental calmness.


Ps.

Thanks for those that have commented and made suggestions – really grateful. I will carefully ponder what you have posted.

 

Ever thought of starting a blog? Writing stuff down regularly especially when you know others will be reading it not only clears things in your own mind but helps others, a worthwhile pursuit. And it removes the isolation factor. If the blog becomes a success donate any financial proceeds from same to charity.

I suppose it’s a big factor in why I post here a lot. I’m too lazy to start a blog but I enjoy helping others who are inexperienced with investing. I’m no expert by a long shot, there’s much more knowlegible others here than me and no doubt some think I’m an idiot who posts too much. But what the hell even if I only end up helping a few here it adds to my sense of purpose. And to be honest it helps get things clearer in my own mind. I’ve become a better investor for it.

 

I haven't read the whole thread yet - so maybe this has been covered?
But you are not the only one dealing with these issues. Here is a discussion I read on it recently......
Angel Investing, or Angel Philanthropy?

Also - JL Collins has some retreat things called Chautauquas and a lot of people that attend are also in a position to question the next part of the investment journey (after financial independence). It might be a good idea to get along to something like that and discuss with like minded people in the same position?

 

And another thought - you have your investing down pat.
What about going back to Uni and getting your ticket in financial management - and then helping others to reach their financial goals? You know - properly/legally?

All the investing and investment discussion - and it will be hard again because a lot of people start out with next to nothing. A new challenge that fits within your area of interest?

 

Don’t think Blogging would be my thing. But writing it down certainly helps and posting it somewhere even as abstract as this is as good as any to keep me honest that somebody might read it.


So, this is where I’m at – I think.


Would it be acceptable to me to spend heaps of time playing computer games because I enjoy it and I have the time as I don’t have to work for a living. My answer to this question is an easy no. (not that I would begrudge somebody else answering yes – but my answer for me is a pretty clear no.)


Substituting the content of the question slightly becomes:


Would it be acceptable to me to spend heaps of time playing the investment game because I enjoy it and I have the time as I don’t have to work for a living. My answer to this question is an uneasy No. (again, I would not begrudge somebody else answering yes – but my answer is No.) It’s an uneasy answer of NO- because despite answering no, that is what I currently do.


So I know I have to make some changes and I’m not sure how good at making those changes I will be – It seems so easy to push it to back of mind and pick up another company report or research paper instead.


Anyrate – I don’t feel a burning desire to make changes that are useful for society – I’ve lost that urge, I’m happy on that front that anything I achieve will be coincidental or from being a good dad. More like what I need to do, is along the lines of, if your kid was stuck inside on the computer you would be happy to see them go and ride a bike, play with a friend play an instrument instead. That’s more the goals I need to define for myself. Get a thoughtful balance to my life rather than just responding to my investment addiction. I feel like I’ve lost a bit of adrenaline motivation as I got older – Need to actively replace some of the adventure sports I did as recreation with new interests and I feel like I have lost some of my handyman skills etc – time to get those back. Learn an instrument, bake a cake Just ordinary crap that gives me a balance.


So here we go - dialling it back from now. Goodbye stock market addiction hello Bike, Hello Lathe, Hello Guitar, Hello mmmm Dad made Lemon Meringue for pudding! Maybe even hello further education who knows? Everything in moderation please sir - how hard can it be??????

 

Hi @dunno

Apparently, the ages of 37 to 55 (or thereabouts) are supposed be some of the unhappiest in men’s life. Also, if I recall correctly, it apparently peaks at 47 and then slowly improves after that to the point where after 55, most men report their happiness quotient being higher than when they were in their 20s.

As far as I am concerned (mid-30s), I recognised that investing was becoming a bit all too consuming a few years ago. I used to read about it at home before bed, talk to my wife during the longish commute in the car and read about it at work etc. I soon worked out that doing this was a recipe for an unhappy life as I spent most of my time in the future trying to imagine my blissful life post early-retirement or counting my investing returns before they were hatched. Basically, living in the future and not respecting the bountiful life I have growing right beneath my feet.

Jordan Peterson in his 12 rules for Life book touched upon this. Simply put, on an all-consuming topic, he suggests limiting talk and decision making to about 5 minutes every day. He suggests not talking about it outside this time. He says without this self-imposed limitation, you cannot conserve energy and things spiral out of control and you are left exhausted. That is how Peterson got through his daughter’s illness and prolonged medical challenges.

Pace yourself. Remember that life is a marathon, not a sprint. Go well mate.

 

“Beware of Destination Addicition - a preoccupation with the idea that happiness is in the next place, the next job and with the next partner. Until you give up the idea that happiness is somewhere else, it will never be where you are”

 

Oh man, are you really in for it going down THAT path.

And I ain't referring to the equipment (guitar(s), mics, amps, etc) which could cost you a small fortune - won't tell ya how much the Gibson J-45 put me back let alone the outlay for Fender American Standard Shawbucker.

It's attempting to get down pat some of the music. Spent about three hours yesterday and I'm still not happy with it. If you google Fernando Sor Etudes Study Op No 6, No 8, you'll get some idea - but I consider myself awfully untalented despite what a vastly more experienced friend of mine says.

However it is fun and you could find the more you have of Four Pillars, the better you will get.

 

Having spent over 20 years as a semi-pro drummer in my youth I occasionally get the temptation to buy a kit again to see if I’ve still got what it takes. Trouble is all those years exposed to excessively loud music has wrecked my hearing. What little hearing I’ve got left I’m keen to retain.

Most lead guitarists I worked with preferred a Fender Stratocaster. But the first thing they’d do after buying it was to get the pickups changed for increased distortion. I preferred Gibson Les Paul, the sound was amazing in the hands of a great guitarist. Amateurs sound terrible on a Strat compared to a Gibson. My right side hearing is much worse than the left as the lead guitarist was usually on the right side. Bloody volume freaks.

 

Look familiar but I’m Going back a long way. I’m sure there are now heaps of different models.

Gee @SatayKing if I was still in Canberra we could have had a jam session.

 

You have an analytical brain. You enjoy solving problems and investing is one that challenges. If you are financially free maybe you could do the analysis without actually investing (I.e. alcohol free beer). It might help you decide if you like the process or the results (drinking or being drunk).

It's not a terrible hobby after all. Not advice

 

A Les Paul Studio. Used and cheap as on Gumtree.

Hehe I doubt if I'd be able to keep up with ya but it'd be interesting.

As for @dunno the basic issue is finding something worthwhile to do which doesn't revolve around money or much of it. I've undertaken a couple of short recreational courses at the local TAFE and found them well worthwhile - for me at least.

 

Haha sounds a bit like what I did recently...

Look at every one of the top 300 stocks to see how many were non dividend-payers or sub 1% payers, just out of curiosity. How sad is that!

(for those interested the answer was 60-something)

 

You seem to be experiencing what a lot of successful professional sports people do. A sense of ennui once they have reached the pinnacle and don't know what to do then. Getting another gold medal or championship ring or whatever doesn't inspire them regardless of how much they love their sport. Up to that point they had spent all their effort to become the best, to achieve their dream, etc and had never thought about what comes next.

I don't know if reading sporting biographies is your thing but there are some really good ones out there. Perhaps reading of other people's struggles with a similar situation might give you some food for thought and shed a new light on your own inner turmoil.

 

Home brewing?

 

@dunno sounds like you've already reached the point of enough and you realise this.

Your last point was about what to do next. This can be a tricky one. I'm dealing with this one myself at the moment.

I think the reason some of us (at times) feel guilty for becoming so fascinated by investing is because there's money involved... so it tends to feel like you're obsessed with money, when really you just love learning things, analysing stuff and watching the exciting game play out.

If someone is obsessed with a hobby we think they're passionate, but if they're obsessed with investing we think they're greedy/love money. We need to break that connection in our minds I think.

It's a fine hobby. One of the best ways to keep the brain ticking over and reach a healthy old age. I read an article once that showed an astonishing amount of investors who lived to be 90+ and still 100% switched on.

Deciding what's next is about finding things you care about and spending time on them. Perhaps some more balance is all you need. Give yourself a limit of 'investing' time per day perhaps. Then go do other stuff.

There's always stuff to do. Sounds like you now have a plan to take up some new (old) interests.

For me, I try to spend time writing, learning more stuff. Spending time with my partner and dog. Being active doing weights, walks, bike rides. Helping (or trying to) in the garden. Doing stuff around the house. Reading books/listening to podcasts.

I'm just as guilty as some here, I find myself doing these other things but still thinking about investing. And when I'm focusing on investing I feel guilty for not doing the other stuff.

At some point you just have to relax and say it doesn't really matter. Our lives don't have to be deeply meaningful everyday. We just have to spend time doing a range of things we feel are enjoyable and worthy of our time (while we're here) and trying to be a good person.

A good book that I'm reading about this stuff is - The Subtle Art of Not Giving A F*&%, by Mark Manson. Very good yet counter-intuitive life advice.

Also I've noticed the more simple I make my life, the more I like it. Strange how that works. Maybe I should try it with my investments?!

All the best with your new adventures

 

Another addict here but no mid life crisis. Reading your post i think i should be having a mid life crisis now to stay within the trend line

Is it out of fear?

 

How about not heaps of time but just a bit of time like a couple of hours per day?

I understand you have achieved financial independence and doesn’t need the money, then just treat it as a hobby to challenge your analysis skills & keep your brain working.

If you truly enjoy doing something, be it gym, cleaning, cooking, listening to music or in your case investing, I maybe wrong, but can’t see any reason why you need to deprive the enjoyment.

Or spend more time with your family & do activities together. You can also be a financial tutor to your children, it can be fun

 

Wow, I like that and totally agree! Happiness is in the presence, being in the moment and realising it! Why compare and even judge your own decision making process?
Have friends, financially very wealthy, stopped work, then two years later opened new companies/mines again. The financial wealth did not substitute or justify them feeling better. Do what you love to do and become content with it, we are all unique and different, and whose norm would you confide into rather than your own? I would look at your addiction as passion, and there's nothing wrong with being passionate as long as it makes you happy and satisfied?
As humans we are never satisfied hence why meditation really helps, being still and just letting thoughts answer some questions.
I think you really haven't answered truly the question, "What if you had only 18 months to live? What would you do and how would you live your life?". Recently I had a health scare and such questions entered my mind, and boy, my perspective on life really changed, even though I think I live quite happy balanced life! It is not until you really realise you may not be here tomorrow you aspect and perspective on life really changes, you become grateful for EVERYTHING, even for waking up the next day! Remember your thoughts or attitude or desires lead into actions which then lead into results, that's all! LIVE EVERY DAY AS IF IT WAS YOUR LAST and then life becomes so content and you really appreciate yourself and those close to you....and what you also do!

 

I’m a 42 year old that knows exactly how you feel @dunno . I’m still a few years off FIRE, but not too many. I purchased my first investment property at only 18 and have always had quite a high savings rate. I think about investing far too much as well. I am an addict!

I have scaled back work to 4 days and spend that day off kayaking or mountain biking. I spend more time with my kids than any other Father I know. We spend a lot of time together as a family.

For myself, the passive income buys me time (a lot of it). Everyone I know is SO busy busy busy....I'm not. They all rush around and weekends are a mad dash to get everything done. The way I see it, if I'm busy or rushing around, I'm doing something in my life wrong!

My biggest problem is the more I’m worth, the lower my career aspirations become.

Great thread!