Addicted to Investing

Hi, my name is dunno and I'm a shares addict.

 

My name is dummo (more appropriate than Nodrog) and I’m an addict but funds rather than direct shares and even more addicted to investing, Super and tax in general AS IT APPLIES TO US. The whole area of wealth creation, investor psychology and retirement planning fascinates me.

I was told the first 30 years is the worst but I’m well beyond that and more of an addict than ever.

That said our portfolio and retirement strategies are simple and are getting even more so with time.

In more recent times it’s really hit home that despite decades of investing and learning about same the more I learn the more I realise how little I know. And with age I seem to be more resistant to change. But when the penny finally drops I’m ruthless in making necessary changes. Nothing is sacred.

Importantly as much as reading and research about this stuff is enjoyable I try my best to apply the most important rule I’ve learnt: THOU SHALL NOT FIDDLE. To help protect me from myself I’ve appointed my wife as CIO with final say on any portfolio decisions.

 

I would really like to hear your dear wife's take on what is a good investment.
My guess is simple solid stuff like VGS , VAS, Vanguard Funds like VDHG, ARGO , and AFIC.

After watching you for years she knows what works, what doesn't work and what works but has too much hassle/risk or whatever. As she is once removed from the decision she is in a good position to make judgements.

 

This thread probably belongs in the investor psychology thread – But I’ve never posted anywhere but the other assets section, so why start now.

So I’m feeling a bit messed up at the moment. I’m 47, so maybe I’m having a midlife crisis, maybe I have some mental illness thing creeping up, maybe I’m normal and just need to get my head straight.

I think, getting some stuff out of my head and writing it down might help – so I guess that is what this thread will be about. If I’m going to write it, might as well share it. Not that anybody else will probably be interested, but then maybe I’m not the only one who struggles understanding themselves. Maybe others might also find writing it down and sharing helps. Please feel free to join in if you wish.

 

I think the core of my current discontent is that I have lost the meaning for why I invest, yet I still invest, and I still put a lot of time into it – time I feel guilty for not using elsewhere. Which makes me think my true core even sub-conscious motivation is an investment addiction – and I’m not happy with that. I would like to re-align my investing with a motivation and get back to when I truly thought I invested to achieve financial freedom. Everything felt in alignment then and I felt more contented.

Am I addicted? Am I scarred? Am I greedy? Do I lack imagination energy and comitment to embrace other goals?

 

I just tried to ask her to sum up what she likes in an investment which resulted in a very heated reply along the lines of “you expect me to answer something like that this early in the day”. It’ll probably be a week before I get an answer now. I never learn. Needless to say she doesn’t share my enthusiasm for investing. So now awaiting CIO response.

 

I try to understand, does that mean doing it for the sake of doing?

Have you achieve this goal?
If it’s still in progress maybe this is the motivation that keep you going (or addicted to investing as you said)?

Awwww, I thought she’ll said something like simple, long lasting & no maintenance

 

You foolish, twisted boy. And with age supposedly comes wisdom. You've just proved it don't!

As for me, if I don't put another dollar towards investing it will not matter one whit. I still do it but not much as of late. I figure there's only a few things you can do with money; spend it, put it in the bank, invest it or give it away.

@dunno I've sort of been there, done that. Fear of future situation, peer pressure, media and social pressure that ya gotta do it for the good of the country and crap like that. After a while, you go screw it and adopt the approach of family, me then thee (thee meaning everybody else.)

 

I stumbled across this community whilst googling sequence risk – on a property forum of all places. This site also made me aware of another community which seems to call themselves FIRE (financial independence, retire early) @Snowball I think is one of them. I’m sorta hoping some of that mindset can chime in because they seem to have done some good thinking about a lifestyle that I more fell into than planned and have led it in isolation from others doing similar. I think I have missed some of the critical thinking along the way especially around

How much is enough?
How to recognise in a timely, manner that you’ve reached that point?
How to work out what is meaningful for you next?

 

It is the greatest game of all...which can become a mania. Many of us are afflicted to some extent. Even I still look around for deep value opportunities although I haven’t deployed any capital to that end and would be unlikely to do so with anything more than a very minor sum...just for entertainment more than anything. It’s about the search

We travel not for trafficking alone:
By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned:
For lust of knowing what should not be known
We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

 

@dunno I must admit going through something similar very recently which is why for the first time in my life (excluding my trading days) I’ve written a simple Investment Policy Document after a very long discussion about this with my wife. Something simple and easily understood by just about anyone. This included a flowchart showing how structures / accounts fit together. Unfortunately I don’t think she’d feel comfortable with me sharing this publicly.

I suppose you could say I’m an addict in reading about investing etc but given I’m retired it’s an enjoyable hobby. The difference is now I try to separate most of this from the management of our actual investments. As stated earlier, NO FIDDLING.

As a result of recent soul searching we decided further simplification of the portfolio was required, extreme low maintenance was desired and preservation rather than seeking maximum performance was more important.

Addictions can potentially lead to us being self-centred or perhaps it’s the reverse. One thing that helped with this was to seriously ask myself if I kicked the bucket tomorrow what would be the easiest, lowest stress Investment Strategy that could be managed by my wife / heirs?

 

I started tying something along those lines and quoted it to her which only agitated her more. She said don’t assume you know what I’d say or even think about posting that. So CIO response is likely to be a very delayed one now. Best I try to avoid a third strike.

 

Hi SatayKing

Thanks for your post

Been there done that is what makes your posts so valuable.

It’s just that three of the things you list that can be done with money just don't inspire me. Spend it (in excess), bank it, give it away. So, if none of the three is my motivation why do I love to invest so much? Should I just not care and except that I do it because I enjoy it and that is reason enough.

What do I do with the excess from my obsession if I remain oblivious to everything else? Leave the issue to my kids to sort out - What sort of unintended consequences does that create?

One way or another I am going to have to come to terms with myself.

 

This is a management issue I think....what you need is another outlet/s to burn that mental energy so that investing is placed in the background. Indexing a large majority (say 90-95%) and locking it up in a trust or company, under a strict investment policy statement, with a fixed long term asset allocation and rules based portfolio operation will remove A LOT from front of mind.

The remainder can be used for active investments, but as the sum is low in relation to your wealth it will not take up too much mental space...I’m talking longer term fundamental plays here, I imagine that technical plays are a different story altogether.

Burn up your mental and physical energy and stay busy, the addiction will fade into the background and become an interest, that won’t change I don’t think.

 

@dunno I want to share this to give you an idea of my affliction, recently before bed I have been going through the ASX list letter by letter and looking at all non resource small and micro cap stocks. Turning over stones, reading annual reports etc. What sort of lunatic does that for a hobby? I just find it bloody interesting. I am under no illusion that I have any insight and that the bones are picked very clean these days....I had a different view once..but I still like to look, as in that search you learn things about business you otherwise wouldn’t.

The difference between now and years ago, I look not expecting to find and not expecting to buy. It’s just an interest.

 

Ah. Pity @truong is still away on his meditation retreat.

It sounds more like investing might just be substituting for lack of other interests in your life? And / Or if you’re nature is like mine it could be a combination of anxiety / depression / obsession if left unchecked. A mind that never stops, always living in the future of what ifs? Can lead to exhaustion and loss of sense of purpose.

If I recall your level of wealth is such that I thought you’d reached that level many only dream about ie having won the game. Might sound crazy but taking time out a couple of times a day to quiet the mind could lead to things becoming clearer.

Apologies if I’ve missed the mark.

 

You’ll be rewarded by waiting patiently

Of course! Too cold to sleep outside

 

I definitely don't have any pearls of wisdom. Basically, I don't give a stuff about what other people have. Sure, I come across others who proclaim they have this or that and while it may be interesting, it's irrelevant to me.

Thinking along the lines of not What did you have for breakfast? but Did you have breakfast? helps in a way. Meeting any required financial commitments and then all else becomes the bonus.

I now keep things very simple in my life. A home, food to eat (peanut butter sandwiches are good), sometimes dining out, a bit of travel, going to events, movies, enjoying the National parks (did that last weekend), discussions with friends and acquaintances (but never letting on about my financial situation although some ask through curiosity which is natural) and trying to play the bloody guitars I've got!

Don't stress and switch off when necessary, especially the share market which I haven't bothered to look at for a few days.

 

Here ya go, have a crack at this:

 

It can get a serious hold on you over time--MR --Market is there 24/7 and i still think back to when I first bought CBA in the mid 1990's reinvested every cent till one year ago--and when I bought into again a few days ago even with all the manipulation of recent accounting data you become numb to constant media insults about analysing the message..

As far as the --
I'm a shares addict.

Sometimes you just have to switch off,most Men will hit the wall at sometime in their life and anyone game enough to day trade in this market would mess anyone up ,and you don't give an addict more drugs if they have withdrawal pains..But every day I spend a few hours watching numbers so I may also be an addict ..
music helps..