Adani mine - environmental impact

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Thedoc, 13th Jun, 2019.

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  1. Thedoc

    Thedoc Well-Known Member

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    Are we really going to base a decision over a small bird?

    Besides that Asian countries are going to buy coal. Do we give it to them better quality and cleaner burning or let them get crap quality and pollute more?

    At the end of the day people in poverty don’t care about a finch they just want warmth and the ability to cook.
     
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  2. Thedoc

    Thedoc Well-Known Member

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    Provide coal to 3rd world counties or protect a small bird. Which is more important?
     
    Last edited: 13th Jun, 2019
  3. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    I think Tony Abbott coined it well in his goodbye speech, and I paraphrase

    Climate change for those that can afford options , is a moral issue, for those that struggle financially its a financial issue.

    ta
    rolf
     
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  4. Thedoc

    Thedoc Well-Known Member

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    Yep all the people sitting in their petrol cars on their laptops and smart phones banging on about emissions whilst people unemployed and in third world countries are trying to put food on the table. The hippies from Newtown need to get off Centrelink and get a job themselves rather than getting involved in protesting issues they think are on trend.
     
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  5. JDP1

    JDP1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that the world laughs at Queensland for the reason you mentioned.
    The real issue here is is that this entire process of many years greatly dissuades foreign investment from coming here. What a shame that is.
     
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  6. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    I suspect this isnt just a 3rd world thing

    i think in part this is what the electorate in regional australia said to some extent as well.

    But the reality is I am biased, my background is in the exploration and mining industry.

    there is always a price to pay, be that an environmental or an economic outcome if we as humans
    exist, even at a Paleo style level that some political movements want OTHERS to exist at.

    ta
    rolf
     
  7. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how many who campaign against climate change:

    Get rid of their petrol cars,
    Don’t own or use air conditioning at home,
    Walk or ride bikes everywhere,
    Refuse to fly anywhere, especially overseas?

    It is easy to take the moral high ground while acting in the complete opposite way.

    Bob Brown showed the height of hypocricy by driving a convoy of petrol cars over 1500km - to complain about a coal mine and its effect on the environment.

    As the saying goes - think global but act local.
    Marg
     
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  8. Lambo

    Lambo Active Member

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    Investing in electric cars is useless if our government refuses to invest in renewable energy.
    And the argument against Adani isn't only about the emissions. It's also the land clearing, the effect of transporting coal on the great barrier reef, and the unlimited access to our ground water.

    Really goes to show that money will buy anything. Even our future and our children's future.
     
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  9. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Death by a thousand cuts ... and it's not just the bird ... it's the life of the entire ecosystem that exists around the Carmichael River and the large nearby wetlands, right down to the Barrier Reef.

    Just how much are you willing to give up - inch by inch - bird by bird - waterway by waterway ... until there is nothing left?

    As for those who do not have electricity in developing countries - perhaps you need to read up on countries like India that are switching to solar at a dramatic rate, without the need for expensive infrastructure, and outstripping the need for future coal.

    Yes I drive a petrol car - have owned it for 11 years and bought it second hand - in 8 months will be moving to a hybrid, and shortly after hubby's 10 year old diesel will be swapped out for an electric - next reno (planned for 18 months time) will not include an aircon but will include 10kwh solar array, solar hot war, solar underfloor heating and a damn big vege path for the community to share.
     
    Last edited: 13th Jun, 2019
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  10. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    ... and - as stated in the other thread - it's not simply "a small bird". How much are you prepared to lose for every inch of ground you give up? Clean water? Clean air? Loss of entire ecosystems that lead to further collapse? Investment in a dying industry for the sake of 100 jobs?

    Insect population is down 75% on 30 years ago - bird population is down 30-50% on 30 years ago (Australian threatened bird populations drop by half in 30 years on average) - every small decision to grant destructive industries is costing the planet.

    Death by a thousand cuts - individually each cut means nothing - combined they mean everything
     
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  11. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    For the record - Adani has a really sh!te record of NOT complying by environmental requirements, leaving a mess for the involved country to clean up and pee-ing back to it's Cayman Islands haven

    Adani's track record in India 'leaves a lot to be desired', ex-minister says

    Adani's Track Record in India Should Have Sounded Alarm Bells

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...lth-risk-we-can-t-afford-20190524-p51qy0.html

    I won't post a link to a list of their worst breaches, as it's a pretty biased website, but google Adani environmental issues and have a read
     
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  12. strongy1986

    strongy1986 Well-Known Member

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    if demand for thermal coal.is dying a natural death then why not let it happen naturally?

    If regions in india are still burning crap for electricity then they will still use coal

    the amount of energy that has been poured into stopping one mine is pretty dumbfounding really

    yep renewables will.be the way forward, i dont think anyone disagrees but why do we in Australia who are well off feel like we can tell the disadvantaged how they should run their lives
     
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  13. investoradam

    investoradam Active Member

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    You need coal to make the renewables! Some that the idiot greens will never admit to

    If you saw the sheer size of personal investment on infrastructure and exploration of billions of dollars that has been and is going on alone in CQ BMA/BHP the last 9 years have spent 13 billion alone on two new sites and expanded one of them twice!

    The demand for coal is only growing, regards of the pathetic left continues to cry! Despite happily taking the billions in royalties
     
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  14. Thedoc

    Thedoc Well-Known Member

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    It really makes you question whether the weekend activists care about the people living in the slums that will be provided with electricity as a result of Adani or whether their social media image is just far too important to even consider this.
     
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  15. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Actually I care deeply - perhaps you need to do some reading

    More than one billion people do not have access to electricity. What will it take to get them connected?

    "We know that the countries with the biggest electrification gap are not delivering connections at the rates needed to be fully electrified by 2030. What will it take to move the needle faster?

    In one word: decentralization. We simply cannot continue to push national grids in remote areas where the demand for electricity does not justify the investment, nor can the grid infrastructure itself, in many such places, handle the electrons that are supposed to pass through it. Last mile grid instability is a serious issue in many parts of the developing world.

    As indicated by the International Energy Agency, probably as much as half of electrification will need to come from off-grid solutions. We have seen tremendous growth in access using rooftop solar home systems (SHS), which can be deployed in one day and can provide sufficient power for everything from a few lights and phone chargers to milling, grinding and refrigeration using highly efficient appliances.

    Mini-grids will also need to be an important part of the end-game. They typically require significantly less capital to set up, compared to centralized power plants and associated distribution networks. Yet they can support productive loads critical for economic development, from pumping water to small-scale manufacturing."
     
  16. spludgey

    spludgey Well-Known Member

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    True, what good has that bird ever done for me?

    Unfortunately apathy is killing this planet and eventually, it will be our turn.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. wategos

    wategos Well-Known Member

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    Bad decision. Coal has to go, too much damage. Simple as that.
     
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  18. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    The third world countries are moving to renewables - solar, wind, thermal etc - at a much (much much) higher rate than the west - because solar doesn't need expensive and unwieldy infrastructure - doesn't rely on a product from other countries - doesn't pollute their own waterways

    This is just one article - there are hundreds to read if you google:

    Developing countries biggest installers of renewables – BloombergNEF

    or this

    More than one billion people do not have access to electricity. What will it take to get them connected?
    "We know that the countries with the biggest electrification gap are not delivering connections at the rates needed to be fully electrified by 2030. What will it take to move the needle faster?

    In one word: decentralization. We simply cannot continue to push national grids in remote areas where the demand for electricity does not justify the investment, nor can the grid infrastructure itself, in many such places, handle the electrons that are supposed to pass through it. Last mile grid instability is a serious issue in many parts of the developing world.

    As indicated by the International Energy Agency, probably as much as half of electrification will need to come from off-grid solutions. We have seen tremendous growth in access using rooftop solar home systems (SHS), which can be deployed in one day and can provide sufficient power for everything from a few lights and phone chargers to milling, grinding and refrigeration using highly efficient appliances.

    Mini-grids will also need to be an important part of the end-game. They typically require significantly less capital to set up, compared to centralized power plants and associated distribution networks. Yet they can support productive loads critical for economic development, from pumping water to small-scale manufacturing."

    How about - instead - jobs in Australia are created, and investment is made, in facilities such as this (if only the NT government could get it's act together as they've delayed 3 years already):

    Australia's first battery "giga-factory" set for development in Darwin | RenewEconomy

    ... or this electric car assembly:

    Supercharged plan to build 15,000 electric vehicles in Adelaide per year
     
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  19. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    .... fabulous film - even the trailer is inspirational and positive



    **bought to you by "the sugar film" guy
     
  20. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    *** for those that are a little confused about this thread starting "mid discussion" ... the beginning of this thread is here

    Adani approved