VIC Need advice please - end of lease

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by Da-Mad-One2022, 13th Dec, 2022.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
Tags:
  1. Da-Mad-One2022

    Da-Mad-One2022 Active Member

    Joined:
    13th Dec, 2022
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I have a plan. I have received some great help from some professional property managers which i appreciate.
     
  2. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,292
    Location:
    Sydney or NSW or Australia
    In NSW it's clearly stated on the Fair Trading website including a template for giving notice to terminate. Tenants NSW provide similar information.

    I undertake a substantial amount of tenant advisory work including mentoring other team members in dissecting, interpretation, application and negotiation of leases, licences and other occupancies granted to overcome Lessors' responses or lack thereof.

    I too, am more than aware that tenants aren't out there unassisted and it's the role of the agent to comply with the legislation and agency agreement, neither of which mention ensuring that the tenant terminates an agreement correctly but to act in the best interests of the client.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 15th Dec, 2022
    Michael Mitchell likes this.
  3. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24th May, 2017
    Posts:
    10,396
    Location:
    Australia
    And just to make it clear, the client of a property manager is…..
     
  4. Da-Mad-One2022

    Da-Mad-One2022 Active Member

    Joined:
    13th Dec, 2022
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The tenant
     
  5. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24th May, 2017
    Posts:
    10,396
    Location:
    Australia
    the consumer vic website seems to refer to ‘clients’ and ‘renters’ as different parties, but not a lawyer or have court experience……
     
    craigc and Da-Mad-One2022 like this.
  6. Da-Mad-One2022

    Da-Mad-One2022 Active Member

    Joined:
    13th Dec, 2022
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Well when renters have issues they call the property manager not the landlord
     
  7. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,292
    Location:
    Sydney or NSW or Australia
    Which can be one and the same. NSW leases also provide contact details of the owner (not just the agent).
     
  8. Da-Mad-One2022

    Da-Mad-One2022 Active Member

    Joined:
    13th Dec, 2022
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    Melbourne
    So do they in Victoria
     
  9. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    3rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    12,419
    Location:
    Sydney
    To make it abundantly clear - again - the property manager works for the landlord, not for the tenant. The property manager has no obligations to the tenant beyond what is prescribed by legislation.

    There is a very useful website which explains pretty much everything you need to know regarding tenancies in Victoria - run by the Tenants Union of Victoria: Tenants Victoria

    Here is their section on ending your lease: Ending your lease

    Notice of intention to vacate
    A notice of intention to vacate is a written statement you give to the rental provider telling them that you want to end your rental agreement and move out.

    In most instances a notice of intention to vacate is required if you want to end your rental agreement.

    It needs to be given in writing, signed by you, and must include:
    • The required minimum notice period
    • The date that you will be moving out and returning the keys [sections 91Z, 91ZZN]
    You can give more than the minimum notice period, but not less.

    You can move out before the end of the notice period, but you will still be responsible for the rent for the entire notice period.

    See also the section headed ‘Giving a notice of intention to vacate’ on this page.

    ... also:

    We recommend you use Consumer Affairs Victoria’s Notice of Intention to Vacate form (document) when giving a notice of intention to vacate so you do not miss any important information. If you use this form to give your notice it will need to be signed by all the renters on the agreement.
    ... finally:

    Ways to give notice
    You can give the notice in several ways [section 506].

    In person
    Give a copy of the notice, and copies of any evidence you have attached, to the rental provider or agent in person. Write down the date, time, and name of the person you handed it to.

    By post
    If you mail the notice, Tenants Victoria recommends using registered post. Keep your receipt and tracking number so you can prove when you sent it.

    Allow extra time for delivery if the notice gives the rental provider a time frame to comply. See Australia Post’s delivery times.

    By email
    You can only send notices by email if the rental provider or agent has agreed to this.

    Check If you to have something in writing from the rental provider or agent that says they agree to you sending notices by email – this might be in your rental agreement.

    Also make sure you are using the email address the rental provider or agent agreed to in the written communication, as they may have more than one email address.

    Check to see if you can add a delivery or read receipt to your email before you send it, so that you receive an automatic reply. In your email ask for a return email from the agent or rental provider, to confirm your email has been received, or call them.
    ... this final bit is the most important.

    Has the agent agreed to receive notices by email?

    I'm not suggesting they were wrong to email it - but it's generally a good idea to confirm receipt of important "notices" of this kind - especially when timing is important. It's also generally a good idea to use the form recommended by the relevant authority to make it perfectly clear what your intentions were.

    Is it possible that the wording of the email was sufficiently vague as to make the property manager unsure of the intention?

    Either way - a VCAT hearing is the best way to get this sorted.

    On what date were the keys returned to the property manager?
     
  10. Da-Mad-One2022

    Da-Mad-One2022 Active Member

    Joined:
    13th Dec, 2022
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Keys where returned Monday as in the lease agreement it states they must be returned in business hours Mon-Fri. Lease ended on a Friday, Agent was closed Saturday.

    When you say : Is it possible that the wording of the email was sufficiently vague as to make the property manager unsure of the intention?

    You are correct so the property manger should have called or emailed the tenant to confirm as the tenant thought they where doing the correct thing by contacting the agent
     
  11. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    3rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    12,419
    Location:
    Sydney
    Generally, keys should have been returned on the Friday - you schedule moving out such that you are able to return the keys no later than close of business on the day the lease ends - unless by prior arrangement with the property manager.

    In theory, it should be possible for a new tenant to move in the very next day (although in practice is unlikely) - hence returning keys on the last day of the lease and not 3 days later.

    Some property managers have a drop box outside their office where vacating tenants can leave keys after hours.

    I do think that VCAT is the best course of action at this point to try and resolve the disagreement.

    At the end of the day, the property manager should have started advertising the property for lease as soon as it was clear that the tenant was vacating - the day the keys were returned.

    If they have failed to minimise the vacancy period on the assumption that there was a further 28 days of rent to pay, then I fear the PM may have done the wrong thing by the landlord here - because if VCAT rules against them (partially or fully), then the landlord will be out of pocket because of the PM's tardiness.

    I'd be surprised if VCAT sides with the PM on this - but I also don't think the tenant is completely without blame.

    Let us know the outcome of the VCAT hearing - it will be instructional for all.

    At the end of the day, it would be worth directing your tenant friends to the Tenants Victoria website to make sure they understand all of their rights and responsibilities - and to suggest in future that they don't assume things, but take it upon themselves to verify with the PM before acting, to minimise future chances of misunderstanding.
     
    craigc, Tom Rivera, wylie and 3 others like this.
  12. Da-Mad-One2022

    Da-Mad-One2022 Active Member

    Joined:
    13th Dec, 2022
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Question.
    When a real estate agent attempts to claim for lost rent eg 14 or 28 days if the property in question is leased within the 14 or 28 days does that then mean they can not claim for the lost rent as they are now receiving rent for the property?
    I hope you guys understand what im trying to say.

    Thanks
     
  13. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    13,573
    Location:
    Melbourne
    IF there is a break lease situation:
    Leaving a rental property early or without notice (breaking the lease)

    If the rental provider (landlord) has to cover costs because the renter broke the rental agreement, the renter will usually have to pay them back. These costs might include remaining rent, advertising fees or fees to re-let the property. These are known as ‘lease-break fees’.

    The Y-man
     
  14. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    3rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    12,419
    Location:
    Sydney
    Generally, they would only be able to claim for the rent during the period rent was actually lost.

    For example, if the property is re-let in 10 days, then they would only be able to claim those 10 days worth of lost rent. As mentioned by The Y-man there may be other expenses such as advertising fees as well.
     
    Michael Mitchell likes this.
  15. Da-Mad-One2022

    Da-Mad-One2022 Active Member

    Joined:
    13th Dec, 2022
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Hi all just an update with my original question.
    We had a VCAT date set, Agent was sent all evidence we had all 54 pages.
    Agent today gave in and issued a bond refund.
    I was happy to go to VCAT.
     
    Firefly99, PinkPanther and wylie like this.

Do you need help with investment strategies, don’t want to buy the wrong stocks, or you just need a regular income stream? We provide the research to ensure your investment selections achieve the goals. This is the value of advice.