Claiming expenses for "meetups"

I see on the forums here are many meetups happening, ostensibly to discuss property investing.

Which expenses in these meetups are you guys (as professional investors) claiming tax deductions for?

e.g. transport, dinner, beer, more beer

 

You can't claim beer, that's for plebs.
Only top shelf blu label or better.

Entertainment and functions | Australian Taxation Office

 

Isn't every landlord? Or do you mean, you need to create a company?

I was thinking it may fall under education, in the same way you can buy books on real estate.

Anyway yes, it is something I will ask my own accountant about, but I'm still curious to hear from others here.

 

I didn't get this memo, actually, thanks!

Yeah that's a grey area in my mind, which I guess must be clearly defined somewhere. I'm definitely going there to learn.

Also not sure, and something I have only assumed but will ask my accountant about. He has definitely told me in the past that I can deduct IT-related books, as that is my other field of work.

 

You can’t claim travel in relation to property generally

 

It is entertainment as would not be cost incurred in producing asssessable income. Rental income is a passive return. These costs dont impact that.
Meals and alcohol are also private expediture as the costs is not incurred while travelling ON work or while producing income.
Travel deductions relating to property are non-deductible

I dont know what a "professional investor" is.

Books are self education and there would need to be a sufficient nexus that is more than new knowledge. This comes up with "seminars". Seminars are often not deductible as they dont relates solely to production of income for existing investment property. They invariably cross over to changing things eg adding a GF, dual income, developing etc.

 

As a bit of a devils advocate here, I DID at one point claim on meet-up expenses. I haven't for some time now, however, at the time I was claiming the expenses I was the organisor the meetings and I was running a 'property investing business', in the sence that our accountant had at some time put many of the IPs into a formal partnership agreement. We also had well over 10 IPs, at the time, maybe 20? I can't remember now. We also were actively working on the properties, buying reno'ing & flipping, so was quite easy to justify that it wasn't just a passive investment.

I'm hazy on the details and it had to do with the Centrelink requirements for parenting payments and negative gearing. Children are now in their 30's, so obviously things have changed.

 

Claiming a deduction and eligible deductions that are not reveiewed by the ATO unde self-assessment can be very different. I would have doubts 10 properties are a property investing busienss especially if there was no private ruling. A partnership agreement is of no merit if its a spouse. Certainly activity can be a factor to the property being flipped but not to those that are held. The ATO considers the rental activities distinct from other activities.

One major issue for spouses is that without a busienss of letting properties any partnership could be set aside.
Consider TR 94/8 for factors beyond agreements which can be considered. Esp for spouses. Spouses can have a partnership that isnt formally a partnership. Best example of this is joint ownership of investment property. This ruling also harks back to days when the ATO had some humour is examples eg names. Then compare this to Ruling IT 2316 where a partnership agreemnet was made between spouses for property investing. There was considered to be no partnership in general law despite what was agreed.

Note the ATO view differed from a unreported Board of taxation appeal. The ATO said Situations may arise, however, where it is apparent that the partnership agreement is merely a device to enable distributions to be made which are completely out of proportion to either the partners' true interests in the partnership assets or their participation in the partnership business. Such cases will continue to require assessment on their own merits

 

As I said, it was well over 10 properties, a long time ago, and I'm very hazy on the details. I could ask the accountant, but he's since passed. There may have been some kind of ruling in place as well and it was only for a short time.