QLD Wynnum or Enoggera

Hi All,

Seeking views from people familiar with the Brisbane market.

I've got exposure in the other major capitals on the east coast so looking at Brisbane for the next opportunity.

Budget up to $800K for this purchase.

I'm grappling with whether I go middle ring Brisbane near a train line (Enoggera/Gaythorne) or closer to a lifestyle location (water) with train line but still within 20km of CBD (Wynnum/Manly).

Capital growth is the driver, less interested in yield for this purchase.

For those familiar with Wynnum/Manly, could you share what the predominant demographics of this market are? retirees, working professionals, young families?

Looking at the census data the age demographic in Wynnum is older which possibly suggesting sea changers, retirees rather than professionals commuting to CBD for work?

Would also be interested in the demographics of Wynnum for people familiar with the area.

Thank you in advance. I am based in Sydney and would have love to go up to get a feel on the ground but doesn't look like that will be possible anytime soon.

 

800k? big budget, maybe rethink where you are buying

i would choose manly but thats just personal preference

in general wynnum is not as nice as manly but it depends where you buy

people in brisbane seem.to think wynnum manly is another world away so that is worth considering but i think this attitude will eventually change

 

demographics of wynnum manly?
its like a country town demographics
everyone from all walks of life

 

With 800k I'd be buying in Melbourne if I was after long term capital growth. I'd be looking at single fronted terrace houses close to CBD

 

Enoggera and Mitchelton imo are quality family friendly suburb closer to city for living

 

Thank you for sharing your insights.

I was wondering whether 20km from the city centre was considered too far for Brisbane in the present day.

Though I think 20 years from now that perception will change. I was/am attracted to Wynnum/Manly due to proximity to water and public transport to city. These are 2 key drivers for Sydney and Melbourne so thinking it might translate to the Brisbane market too.

 

Cheers momentum.

Totally agree on Melbourne for future capital growth. I’ve got exposure in Melbourne and Sydney and land tax is the issue if I acquire more property there, hence looking north to Brisbane.

It was a choice between Adelaide or Brisbane for me.

 

If you want to buy in Qld for capital growth I would be looking on the Gold Coast, southern end. With that budget you can buy a house walking distance to beach with development potential. Now the airlines are closed I spend most of my time here these days and regularly see houses being demolished with duplexes or units replacing them. Best bang for buck I've seen recently is a house that sold for 2.25m in Sept 2019 and now there's an 8 storey boutique block of units on the land, one unit per level selling for 1.95m each and penthouse sold for 4m

 

Yeh well most think Brisbane stops after 12k out

I think wynnum is a good 5-600k investment

800k and i would be exploring a lot closer in

For what its worth - if i lived in Brisbane i would live around Manly/ wynnum but my preferences are skewed as i am into sailing/ boating

 

$800k is a solid budget and IMO much better choices for capital growth. @wylie suggested some good ones on the Southside.

I’d add wavell heights & Stafford heights, elevated and going through some
Changes. Lots of renovations and young family’s moving in.

I’m not a huge fan of Enoggera personally but mitchelton is lovely and grange is even better if you can sneak into it for $800k, tightly held family suburb with good growth.

 

Thanks Codie and Wylie. Truly appreciate you sharing your informed local insights. I’ll research those areas you mentioned.

I can’t wait to be able to get on the ground in QLD. It’s just not the same doing desktop analysis.

 

I do have detailed knowledge of Enoggera. Enoggera is somewhat of a "functional / transition" suburb. It borders on Ashgrove / Alderley (which are vey nice suburbs, but can be expensive), Gaythorne / Mitchelton (quite nice areas a little further out) and Everton Park (also a family area but getting to that 8 km - 10 km out).

Enoggera is really good for transportation options into the city - there's the train station, several bus routes (Samford Rd / Wardell St), driving, cycle and if you need to jog home because of a major disruption - just about possible to do so. By comparison, Ashgrove is a very nice and desirable suburb, but really only one way into the city along Waterworks Rd which can get very congested. (There is an urban legend that suggests the Ferny Grove line is the best railway line in Brisbane because all the QR managers use to live along that line!)

Enoggera is divided by Samford Rd / Wardell St (do not buy on these - very busy thoroughfares).

The best parts of Enoggera are the "avenues" (Elkhorn St, Staghorn St, Orchid St, Laurel St areas) and the parts bordering on Alderley / Ashgrove (e.g. Stirling / Bond / Lloyd / Edith / Hilda Elfreda / Harding / Shirley Sts and around the Lady Galway St / Browns Dip Rd area).

Enoggera is quite a friendly suburb, with a mixture of units (close to the station) and family homes, the corner shops on Samford / Wardell provide some convenience, and supermarkets at Ashgrove / Alderley are nearby. Also has a mixture of public and private schools.

The thing about Enoggera, it's a numbers game - it's all about the land value. There are quite a lot of post-war homes in Enoggera, often 2 or small 3 bedroom properties in need of attention - these ones are right for the picking. If you start say at Everton Park / Stafford and work you way into the CBD, every suburb step change closer to the city the land value of a standard 405 sqm block increases $100K - $200K (e.g. Everton Park / Samford, prices for the land are $400K - $500K, Enoggera $500k - $600K, once you get to Paddington and if you can find a 405sqm block - it will be a $1m or so).

These inner city suburbs are very well sought after by property developers who find opportunities to sub-divide land and on-sell the blocks (often to house builders or small time developers / investors). While finding property to subdivide is becoming harder, some older properties on 405 sqm / 607 sqm blocks can be purchased near land value, the houses (STCA, not TBC) can knocked down and new houses built where there should be quite a reasonable uplift in value that can be achieved.

So working backwards where say Paddington may cost $1.5m - $2m for a decent property, and Ashgrove $1m - 1.5m, and where some of the slightly further out suburbs maybe in the below $700K / $800K range, with the ongoing redevelopment of Enoggera, one can see it will occupy the $800K - $1m space. There is kind of a pecking order for those suburbs that radiate out near the CBD, not always linear (some suburbs may be valued higher due to tradition, schools and views) but this is a general rule of thumb.

My "gut feeling" is that the prices in Enoggera will continue to grow due to the "pecking order" as mentioned. It is after all about 6km / 7km from the CBD with good transport connections, whilst not the most prettiest suburb compared to its neighbours, it is quite functional place to live.

Here is a classic example, https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/in-enoggera,+qld+4051;/list-1
Looks like a post-war house, 607 sqm block of land, in a good street - sold for $631K, current valuation on the land is $680K! (don't know why sold under land-value, I tried to check if pre-1946 house but BCC's interactive mapping was down). Assuming it's not, then would be ripe for knock-down and rebuild (see the modern house built next door / look on Google maps to see the other new homes built along the street).

Now the value of the new homes could be $1m plus (hard to tell because none of them sold yet). But anyhow, this is what's happening in Enoggera - the suburb is transitioning from a lot of post-war homes to new ones. (Note that pretty much any older home in Brisbane, especially post-war homes, will be full of asbestos so there can be some additional costs in demolition).

I don't know how it works in Wynnum and I don't know the value drivers there, so cannot comment on whether it's better or worse. Hope the information above helps.

 

We are based in Wynnum

we think it’s been undervalued by Brisbane because of cbd centredness. It’s 13 km to the city 25 mins in car off peak.

It’s 8 degrees cooler in summer.

huge infrastructure uplift
New cinemas
Fairy lights at the parks
New bars cafes
Most expensive homes sold to sydney north shore relocators or Melbourne
Local Brisbane focus on inner city will change with covid and plan for Wynnum to be key hub for Brisbane - one of 8.
We can’t fault it.

buy a view if you can. Otherwise can flick you better options in this thread:

 

We lived and developed in Wynnum Manly Lota from 2012 through 2017 and saw an enormous amount of changes during that period - moving from a sleepy old country town or "Ipswich by the sea" (as it used to be referred to) to a very vibrant and family oriented area.

There are a number of fantastic parks and playgrounds, including an awesome water park for the kids, and a large (free) wading pool, so it is a really attractive place for young families. With a new cinema going in, along with new bars, restaurants, it's only going to get more attractive as a place to live / invest.

I think it is a real lifestyle location, and even though its not a Manly type beach, it still has a real coastal feel. Something about being near the ocean that is quite magic.

It's a 40m train ride from the city, or if you drive (and get the driving window right) you can be in the city within 20 or so minutes. If you actually can bring yourself to leave the place

I haven't seen many Brisbane suburbs change as much as the bayside has in the last 5 years, and I fully expect it to continue along this trajectory.

If you're looking at Enoggera or Wynnum/Manly/Lota and have ~800 to spend, perhaps looking for a long term development site may be an option in either place. It's hard to make them work at the moment due to the vendor expectations, but if you're looking at holding for a while anyways, it would definitely make sense to look for this type of product.

Good luck with your hunt!

 

I love Wynnum/manly area. Lovely area with good cafes, waterfront, markets etc. Some amazing hillside homes with bay views

 

Thank you for taking the time to write a considered and thorough post. Some incredibly useful insights. Invaluable.

It’s why this is such a great forum.

Cheers.

 

Thanks Tifoso. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts on Wynnum, Manly, Lota. Great to have knowledge from someone who lived and developed in the area.

I am certainly looking at established housing with future development potential at some future point.

 

@Tifoso what so you mean by 'Even though it's not a Manly type beach?'

 

The suburb Manly in NSW - it doesn’t have the same beach.