Would you take a guaranteed annual 10% ROI?

Discussion in 'Share Investing Strategies, Theories & Education' started by Hazey, 10th Mar, 2017.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
  1. Hazey

    Hazey Member

    Joined:
    16th Jan, 2017
    Posts:
    16
    Location:
    Timor-Leste
    I have an opportunity to put some money into a UK based business that will provide a guaranteed 10% ROI that I am able to compound each year. I was thinking of putting a portion of money into this project as a diversification strategy. I have been watching the business operate this program successfully since 2009 and they are looking to increase turnover from 24m to 40m sterling this year. What do people think?

    10% would beat a lot of LIC's/ETF's right?
     
  2. PerthPadawan

    PerthPadawan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14th May, 2016
    Posts:
    88
    Location:
    Perth
    Let me check the list of guaranteed things in life:

    1. Death

    2. Taxes

    3. New companies guaranteeing 10% ROI

    It's on the list! Go for it!
     
    Snowball, scoobie27, ACMH16 and 17 others like this.
  3. Hazey

    Hazey Member

    Joined:
    16th Jan, 2017
    Posts:
    16
    Location:
    Timor-Leste
    If it sounds too good to be true right.....

    It is a private company involved in quick property acquisition and development. The rate they can get for loans when needed is 12-15%, so they offer 10% to private investors which allows them to save the 2-5% to use in the business. Basically I am buying into the business (even at a small level) and backing them to be successful in what they do.

    I have a small amount of cash (approx 10k) left in a UK account that I haven't touched since I left in 2012, so I thought instead of doing nothing with it, I would put it in and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, I have lost only a small initial investment I was doing nothing with. If I'd done it when I left the UK, I would have 16k by now! This must sound totally naive and stupid to all of you experienced financial and business people?
     
  4. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,171
    Location:
    03 9877 3000
    10% return and it's absolutely guaranteed? I'm going to sell my Ostrich and Timbercorp investments, invest in this and retire right now! Where do I sign?
     
  5. Ross Forrester

    Ross Forrester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30th Oct, 2016
    Posts:
    2,085
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Without a moments thought I would....
     
  6. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,495
    Location:
    Melbourne
    @Hazey Do you have a mortgage over here? Do you have an offset account? Do you work?

    Assuming you earn over $37k per year your 10% return o the UK investment would be 6.75% after tax.

    Assuming you have a mortgage with offset and earn at least $37k per year (thereby paying 32.5c tax in the dollar over $37k), then bring the money over here instead and dump it in your offset.

    Assuming your mortgage rate is circa 5% you're rate of return would be GUARANTEED the same as your mortgage rate, i.e. about 2% less that the UK "scheme" give or take, and essentially risk free, plus your capital is not at stake, its just sat in your bank account.
     
  7. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    6,795
    Location:
    ....UKI nth nsw ....
    Not to me,,You could do more bang for the bucks,with a higher turn-around %$ rate with your 10k in Australian Dollars and target outside the box thinking in new companies listings on the ASX on any day or 16 week turnaround and your money is within Australia..
     
  8. PerthPadawan

    PerthPadawan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14th May, 2016
    Posts:
    88
    Location:
    Perth
    Hazey, for this situation, or any in the future like it, think of it this way:

    1. People do not offer free lunches in the investment world

    That's it.

    Now thinking about this situation with what you have described, it seems banks will only lend money to this company for a very high interest rate (12-15%). This means that the bank assigns alot of risk that it will not be repaid in full on its money, especially as the cash rate in the UK is minimal.

    So what this company is asking of you is to take on that same risk but at a lower rate. If you are lending to them in the form of a loan, then you are simply another creditor. You make the interest rate, but run this risk of getting nothing. And you are happy with taking on more risk for that return than a bank's risk management team would.

    If they are offering you equity, then that's even worse, as equity investors should demand a higher rate of return that lenders. This is because creditors of a company get money before equity investors in bankruptcy.

    PP
     
    Last edited: 10th Mar, 2017
    Hazey and Perthguy like this.
  9. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    5,850
    Location:
    Perth, WA
    Guaranteed 10% annual return! For 9 years!

    Disclaimer: Capital may or may not be gone after 9 year investment period.
     
    Snowball and ACMH16 like this.
  10. Indifference

    Indifference Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    977
    Location:
    Banana Republic
    Every pyramid scheme needs to grow perpetually... red flag 1

    Gauranteed return.... red flag 2

    Fixed 10% return YoY.... red flag 3

    Equity offer.... red flag 4

    Without even seeing a PDS this looks like a winner :rolleyes:
     
  11. spludgey

    spludgey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,523
    Location:
    Sydney
    To answer your original question, yes, I definitely would take a guaranteed 10% return. Shame that you haven't mentioned one yet. I would drastically reduce my offset and buy whatever investment that could guarantee this.
     
  12. Ace in the Hole

    Ace in the Hole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,874
    Location:
    Sydney
    Sophisticated investors don't need PDS's anyway...
    Go for it.
     
    scoobie27 and Indifference like this.
  13. Hazey

    Hazey Member

    Joined:
    16th Jan, 2017
    Posts:
    16
    Location:
    Timor-Leste
    Jaysus...and I thought there were a lot of acronyms in healthcare!!! :confused::):D

    Pretty much a late starting, finance newbie here, so excuse my stupidity. So my next question would be; when I return to Australia can anyone recommend a financial advisor? :rolleyes:
     
  14. Hazey

    Hazey Member

    Joined:
    16th Jan, 2017
    Posts:
    16
    Location:
    Timor-Leste
    I am an Aussie by birth and hold UK citizenship after living there for 11 years now live in Timor-Leste. I am non resident in both Australia and the UK hold no property there, so no offset account to drop the cash into.
     
  15. Zenith Chaos

    Zenith Chaos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    10th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    1,678
    Location:
    Sydney
    What about companies that guarantee 11% but only deliver 10%?