To me a win-win means: We get what we need and the vendor will get as best as the market will allow. Do you think we would be able to get BMV or great deals if the market was in favour of the vendor? Highly unlikely. To me win-win is when you DONT try to completely decimate a vendor like totally ruthlessly. To be honest this is really hard to happen because the market wont allow it, and if the market does then the person buying it is generally taking on much higher risk together will all the normal risks. So the question is: Do you negotiate strongly in favourable markets to get the best you can? I believe its a no brainer yes. We are investors taking on massive debt, risk and sacrifices. Its honestly so stupid how some 'investors' post mortem deals to say ...ohh jeez... this person could have gotten 10k more but didn't therefore it was a fair deal......or this unit was falling apart so the 50k under value buy was fair or not fair etc etc... Its got to be the most ridiculous line of thinking I have ever heard of from professional investors, imo. I understand 'win-win' is important and please don't get me wrong I am not saying I believe investors should try to take the vendor's every last cent cos that's not my view, but seriously it needs to be put into context of what is our primary business here?