Why Property is Better Than Shares

I guess that is why the PT crowd are always talking about buying LICs that have been around for more then 50 years. And of course the other mantra - never sell. So - all good.

 

Nasty stuff

Luuuuv your avatar

 

It's much better for them to close the fund/LIC/EFT at a loss and start again.
-25% return is not a good marketing spiel.
Of course it was just "market conditions" that "could not be predicted" so never their fault.
Only their credit when it goes up.

 

I had been hoping they never had to find out about the dreaded account lock. One of the serious defects of LICs / ETFs. Devastating to investors when it does happen:

 

We had also managed to brush the matter of trading halts for large LICs and cap weight ETFs (or EFTs) during the GFC totally under the rug. Drat and double drat !!

 

Just like in the ole days at SS, it seems many here are talking up some ETF, LIC or managed fund.

Once again I say there's a good chance they will lose their money....again.

 

We live in Australia don't we??

BTW have you visited the Trump thread lately.

 

I'm not sure what's in that cigar you're smoking but it must be something other than tobacco. Nobody wants you banned they just want to know where to get whatever you're smoking:

 

Baha i took it out my post not to troll too much...I'm getting old and mellow.

Some people just don't like seeing the risk involved.
They quote and believe experts and get nasty when someone disagrees.

I don't wanna look there...

I'm now doomed to a life of boredom...

 

Well - welcome to the world of investing in LICs! I am told that boring is the way to go.
Of course some around here spice things up with home brew. You may take this as advice.

 

- Unlisted Managed funds are not ETFs, nor are they LICs. Many did halt redemptions during GFC. The worst of which were property trusts running substantial gearing. Any investor in these funds should understand that redemptions may well be disallowed at volatile times for very good reason. (Its in the PDS). Basically it goes to the liquidity of underlying holdings and tax considerations for other investors in the fund. Nobody here advocates investing in these products.

- There has been plenty of discussion re unlisted managed funds / active management here....very little of it favourable.

- Some REITs went into trading halt during GFC (gearing....who would have thought?)...REITs are not LICs or ETFs.

- No large cap ETFs / LICs went into trading halt during the GFC or were subsequently closed.

- Some small LICs will open / close just as you say at any time. There has been plenty of discussion on that here, almost none positive, with very many warnings given!!

Your ill conceived blanket statements are about as helpful as saying don't invest in property as you'll do your dough, while pointing at Port Hedland as an example!

Now, please continue with your public service to stop people losing money like last time...please provide facts........dates, names, events this time though so we can cover this off. I understand if you don't want to of course

 

See @Piston_Broke, that's confused me too - you know the Buffett line about buying when everyone is pessimistic. I'm really trying to implement that (in a synergistic way, hitting my KPI's ensuring stakeholder engagement...)

I've been waiting on these dratted LICs to close since 1936 so I could get in on the action in a new reborn company: AFI has refused to close for some 80+ years!
Then in 1947 I was sure ARG wouldn't last the year. Drat. Still going.
MLT in 1962 was a sure thing - free love and going down I thought. Well, maybe next year.
Well, those only happen to be the biggest 3 in Australia. Harumph.
Let's look down a level - the 1970's were going to be great. Wars, all sorts of things since then (still no Elvis), but somehow AUI, WHF, CIN have held on. Obviously by the skin of their teeth I hear you say.

So somehow, 53% of the LIC market has held on for 43-80 years. But don't worry - they'll all close shop and be reborn real soon now...

 

Sorry, bad humour. I'm guilty of stirring the Property crowd at times.

Thinking back to Sommersoft days the main funds from memory which turned to rubbish were Steve Navra and Peter Spann funds. I couldn't believe that forum members were silly enough to invest in them. I think because both these people posted on the forum and sounded clever / wrote books / ran courses etc members thought they could be trusted and we're a sure bet. Well again from memory it wasn't a happy ending.

I've only had a mildly negative experience with unlisted managed funds during the 87 crash where two unlisted property trusts we invested in suspended redemptions due to liquidity issues. But when the dust settled and we eventually redeemed all units it was still a very profitable outcome.

I think I've seen enough market turbulence investing over a period of more than three decades to know that you can't make a blanket statement that's suggests all funds (listed / unlisted) and ETFs are bad because investors accounts will likely be locked and they will lose money. Provided one does a little research it's not that difficult to find funds / LICs / ETFs that are likely to be around for the long term.

 

How young were you when you started investing. Or how old are you now?

 

Personally, I'm sitting on the sidelines, pretty concerned that Vanguard (1975) and State Street (1792!) will fold. They have the smell of real fly by nighters! Can't trust these companies that have never seen a financial crisis!

 

Omg can't wipe this grin off my face. Quality stuff!

 

Look at it any way you want, you are giving your money to others to invest on your behalf.
Be it
Exchange Traded Fund
Listed Investment Company
Private Managed Fund
RE Investment Trust
And the many other names they've been called.

I know of dozens no longer around.
That people and companies behind them still are though. Doing the same thing.

All have the potential and ability to stop payments to investors, delisted, trading halts or die of a slow death like Centro.
It's all in the fine print.

And with even with that, the vast majority have average returns at best.

Find one ETF (or anything really) with a decent above average10yr returns? Most have "NA" next to "10y", there's a reason for that.
All those fancy names all with ****** long term results.
Investment Products

Vanguard and Sate St Corp are not funds, they are fund managers.
They make money opening and closing funds whenever convenient.
The are the house that makes money all the time.

But it's ok to be average. Most people are.

 

I think I see how this works now.

- Enron collapsed so we shouldn't buy direct shares.
- Gladstone properties are down significantly so we can't invest in properties as an asset class .
- Argentina defaulted on sovereign debt so any treasury bond is out.
- Cash is no good given how quickly the Zimbabwean dollar devalued.

I just saved everyone a lot of money.

 

Ha! @austing he's got you there, but then again I thought that was the whole point...