LIC & LIT Whitefield Limited SPP

Yes it was meant to be a light hearted joke. More a go at myself than anything as I hate even the simpliest of maths nowadays. But despite my best efforts to sabotage things at times the income continues to grow each year.

I agree that @dunno ‘s post are probably the best I’ve ever seen on any forum anywhere. And I’ve followed many forums over a very long time. Makes me feel like a dunce. I thoroughly enjoy reading his posts. But for those of us who are either too lazy or lack the skill to analyse this stuff I try to offer some hope that success is still possible not only through our outcome but similar in the case of Thornhill, @SatayKing, @truong and others here.

But ideally we should aim to get the best bang for buck from one’s hard earned dollar. This is where posts from the likes of @dunno and @The Falcon for example offer exceptional value.

Importantly the portfolio that lets you sleep best at night may not always be the best performer. We all look for different things. WHF despite any perceived faults maintained it’s dividend during the GFC which for many of its investors was of great comfort. Increased dividends have been a long time coming but longer term investors including myself appear to generally be happy albeit it’s a relatively smaller holding for us. As a famous investor once stated “it’s all about me”! As long as I’m happy it doesn’t matter what others say or think.

 

Well I’ve just gone back and saved @dunno post for posterity. I’ll pull it out when another SPP comes around and estimate my participation that avoids dilution or better.
Until I’m as over-it as @Nodrog in the way distant future.

 

Hi @Nodrog

No offence taken from your post or intended by my response.

WHF SPP thread is as good as anywhere to hide a deep and meaningful.

You have an extended period of immersion in financial literature and practical mistakes to reinforce your commitment to a simple approach. Your desire to see people benefit from where your thinking is now without having to take the path you took to get their often sees you respond to any post containing some complexity with a rebuttal about faith and simplicity. Fair enough.

But But But ………there is always a but. Could you stick to it when first shown? Or did the lure of quick riches or the fear of loss divert you from the track until you had proven certain things to yourself. What did you really need to get to where you are today, more faith or more knowledge?

You are right – the most important thing is Psychology. I don’t make the posts I do to highlight some marginal improvement. I post to provoke people to think and prove or disprove certain things to themselves and then reject or integrate as their circumstances dictate. My personal belief is that knowledge is the foundation for both keeping on track and simultaneously being vigilant to adjust as circumstances evolve.


Any rate: you keep posting keep the faith and keep it simple – as you are right!

And I will keep posting – question everything – as that too is right!

And @SatayKing can keep posting it’s all about me. To remind people that they must choose what is right for them.

I think that has probably got all the bases covered.

All the best.

Now where did that box go.

 

In a way I wish I hadn't said that. It's rather an awful, cold-blooded view of things. However, it is an opinion which I've formed over the last decade or so. So many times I've seen, as probably have others, individuals adopting what other investors do and it can go very wrong. When it does it can be devastating for them and their family. Staid and boring holdings in ARG and AFI but someone whose into options declares they can do better than that. You can guess the rest.

Absolutely nothing can be done to prevent it as far as I'm concerned. Just sit back and observe.

I feel another thread-split coming on.

 

Now where did that box go.
Mate, the SPP offer documents will be dispatched on 16 November 2018
I think the “Take up full entitlement tick box” will be in the offer document

 

Ok there’s been some fantastic posts on SPPs in this thread at a level I’ve never seen before so thanks to all especially to @Hodor and @dunno for taking the thread in the direction they did.

We heard about Faith / knowledge / it’s all about me, but has your view changed? Now the acid test, for those who hold WHF and armed with this deeper knowledge who is still prepared to participate in WHF’s SPP?

Or have you decided you should never have purchased WHF in the first place and need to get rid of it ASAP?

 

I really enjoy the dichotomy of this discussion.

There are a lot of great reasons to participate in the WHF SPP. Like when you walk into Woollies and see half price on your favourite toilet paper. It's cheap based on all of the indicators, NTA, dividends etc. Like toilet paper I need the continued accumulation of LICs to survive based on my plan. The history tells us about WHF's dividend run and it's industrial tilt is unique and theoretically outperforming. I even received a call from Angus Gluskie when I wanted to discuss their recent PowerPoint outlining their tactics. Pretty good service.

On the other hand, the details of what the plan means to shareholders is not clear. I don't think it's obfuscated, but it takes a brain like @dunno to provide the analysis, which is revealing.

I am still uncertain about this one. WHF is a reasonable holding of mine but I also want to keep some powder dry for a bigger fall. I can see that the SPP dilutes existing shareholder's holdings but I'd also need to go all in to reduce this dilution on a personal level.

I appreciate the expert opinions of @Nodrog, @dunno, @SatayKing and Co, and the fact their opinion's can differ is even better.

Life is not black and white. It's grey, it's fuzzy logic. Statistics is the fundamental foundation. We can't predict the position of individual subatomic particles but can apply the statistics of their behaviour to use quantum mechanics in our lives today.

What's the point of this diatribe? Make the best decision you can based on the information you have. It won't always be the best one, but over time, you'll have played the best game possible, which is all you can do

 

Yeah - pick me!! I will be participating.

 

Out of curiousity and for disclosure I just checked my spreadsheet for WHF purchase dates. It doesn’t state which purchases were SPPs but going on amounts it appears I’ve only participated in one or at most two SPPs since the GFC.

I can only find WHF NTA chart going back around 10 years. I’ve circled roughly those times when I’ve purchased WHF shares. We had a smallish holding in WHF prior to the GFC but the majority of our WHF holdings were from large multiple purchases in 2008/9 and 2011/12:


Ironically despite all the discussion on WHF’s SPP I hadn’t given it any thought yet as to whether we will participate in it until now as I type this post. So given the majority of relatively more recent purchases have been in the index ETF VAS, with a number of major Industrial shares being on the nose (banks in particular), WHF’s NTA discount based on SPP offer price appearing to look attractive at the moment and given the crazy amount of cash we hold looking for a home I’m likely to participate in WHF’s SPP. As usual I will note the closing date then check the day before to see if it still looks worthwhile then Bpay for our full entitlement. After that as per usual I won’t give it another thought or check whether it was a good decision or bad. Done and dusted. Just another tiny step in our journey of adding to that wonderful thing called passive income.

I’ve given my decision so now who else is willing to fess up?

 

I suspect you may have a problem having a favourite toilet paper. What's wrong with 40 grit from Bunnings? Lasts for years.

Gees, I should start taking the medication again.

Doing the chart thingys causes stress and possible regrets about what was. Best not to look back at past mistakes. The present ones are enough. Interesting however.

Not too sure about taking up WHF. If I'll do it'll go into my top 5 holdings following WHFPB conversion. Knowing me I'll probably weaken to use some cash.

Sometimes, but not often, I can feel shamefaced being in a position to put $15k+$15k in and not worry about it whereas others are lucky to be able scrape together $1k if that. Reinforces the reality I am indeed fortunate.

 

@Zenith Chaos said:

Not sure the Toilet Paper analogy is a good one. Regardless of the price you pay it always ends up going to crap.

 

@Zenith Chaos, keep at it long enough and eventually you’ll be able to afford the following in retirement:

 

I am willing to play.

Might not have the whole $15K this time unfortunately but will tip in what I can; both within the SMSF and through our DT. I am sure there will probably be just as good an opportunity at some stage to buy it on market at a similar or a better price even. But as I have said before, to me, an SPP is a good buying trigger and I will accumulate when I can.

 

+1

Dunno’s earlier post really fine tuned my thinking on this. My situation is somewhat different to others on this thread in that I am unable to participate in the SPP even if I wanted to (based overseas currently). WHF is our smallest holding (although still significant) and the SPP’s have less benefit the larger your holding, more so if you are unable to participate!

Plus I like keeping things simple and reducing 5 x LIC holdings to 4 is not a bad thing in my view.

Great discussion here.

 

Given our desired goal of simplicity in recent times as detailed elsewhere if I was starting over again I’d have less LICs. But in regard to WHF CGT is too big a hit to manage on top of what has already been sold including all our direct Shares.

For ASX I’d be happy with no more than VAS, MLT, ARG and MIR. Hanging onto a few other LICs though due to CGT doesn’t bother me though as it’s now simple enough with bugger all admin required.

 

The simple way to look at this is you need to match the ratio of shares issued under SPP to shares outstanding now I think about it. Unless I've had an aneurysm.

 

I'm still up in the air. Won't be taking up the full allocation either way.

Still No definite idea how to manage wanting a sloth like active portion of my portfolio and boglehead portion. Picking up MLT at discount and VAS when not is the simple method to my mind.

Really it's all finding a way to feel I'm doing a little something to optimise without really doing anything.

Find it interesting what people view as important and what isn't and can be ignored. The compounding of many things always makes me stop and think RE dilution, NTA discounts, entry price etc

 

Interesting you should say that. MLT is my favourite LIC and now along with VAS (my favourite ASX ETF) our two largest holdings. I’d have no problem with that simple combination but also like MIR being Ex-50 (at the right price) and happy to pay a bit extra fee wise given the diversification benefit in our concentrated market, potential of active mid / small to better the index and most importantly the income as well.

But given the size of our portfolio now as silly as it might sound I feel uncomfortable having all our wealth (outside Family Home / Cash) in just a few funds. Spreading it around in a few more funds but still simple and low admin helps me sleep better at night.

Geez when I think back to owning near 40 directs stocks and over a dozen LICs our final portfolio is dramatically simplier nowadays. And I love where we’re at now, could not be happier and more at peace with it all.

 

I’m going all in.

From my written ‘Lic’ strategy it says ‘participate in SPP’s’ when available.

From my earlier post participation is cheaper than on market so in my mind it’s a ‘cheap’ way to accumulate future income. Which is my goal.

And as a wise man once said ‘it’s all about me’

Blacky

 

LOL, poor @SatayKing will definitely be regretting he ever said that.

I reckon @SatayKing should use the following as his avatar: