Where does Australia find it's wealth next?

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by JamesP, 17th Sep, 2018.

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  1. hobartchic

    hobartchic Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. Both sides of politics support private schools because it saves them a fortune.

    As for kicking the can down the road? I honestly don't know what you're talking about.

    I will tell you this though, I did better academically at a government school (top 20 per cent of all students in Australia in terms of ranking overall). I did well at a private school too. The school didn't make that much of a difference.
     
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  2. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    @hobartchic there is no denial that family is important. And your points are valid. But I would caution about generalisations. Schools sometimes are more important than that. Public schools especially. They often throw a lifeline to those who want t escape abuse and poverty.

    I have a very close relative who grew up in abusive, alcoholic environment. The school gave her an escape and a reprieve. She is an amazing, accomplished and successful woman now, despite the parents. And her children are growing up in a loving environment.

    Mind you the school was a cheap public one. Difficult families would never pay for private schools.

    That’s why I belive this extra funding is a load of Bulls....dust. It’s perpetually increases the inequality between the haves and have nots.
     
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  3. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

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    A few issues with schooling in Australia.
    1. Lack of discipline
    2. Poor curriculum water down on fundamentals and full of BS
    3. School starting at 9.25 preventing 1 parent from working
    4. Schools closed during endless school holidays preventing 1 parent from working (12/13 weeks) why are we not using teachers and schools to run free holiday programs for kids with working parents.
    5. Poor parenting
    6. Poor teachers
    7. Lack of practitioners in teaching roles.
     
  4. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    That’s true. Schools should be like in Russia. Open at 8am and close at 6PM. Gives parent sufficient time to drop kids and come back from work. Bliss.
     
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  5. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    Do you want to know why disadvantaged children cant get enough Teacher Aides?

    Because (1) the government wont pay for enough humans to do this job, and (2) even if they did, who in their right mind would want to do it.

    In my day job, I have worked as an Aide for students with disabilities for 20 years now.

    Every year more and more students who are eligible for aide time enter the system but the number of $$$ supplied by govt either remains the same as last year, or decreases. The pay and conditions are terrible. It is difficult to get a permanent role in this field, funding is very limited to employ anyone. Then in the real world, you might get funding at one school in your district for five hours per week and another two hours per week at another school, etc. This one person gets employed sporadically across different locations. He or she gets treated like scum from people on higher incomes and from those in the community who value neither Education nor People With Disabilities. The aide is employed on a temporary basis, so goes and finds another job somewhere else for fifteen or twenty hours a week instead. Those of us on permanent contracts get paid so little over the year that we do not qualify for car loans or (heaven forbid) a mortgage. In QLd the EBA is currently up for renegotiation and the state Labor government is as draconian as Liberal ones - doing everything in their power to make the employment conditions as Victorian (Charles Dickens, anybody?) as possible.

    Dear Ms Gillard, bless her, liberated massive funding a few years ago to employ thousands more teacher aides across the country, but we didn't get to see much of it spread so far and wide. I believe a lot of it went to pay Literacy and Numeracy Teachers - a glorified administrator on a Teacher's salary - who oversees the tutoring of students who fall below the acceptable outcome levels in their Naplan tests. These lucky students who are identified get some follow up, but at ridiculously under-resourced levels for two years maximum and then they are removed from support. I have also served as an aide in this role and have first hand experience with how it works.

    Where I work, we are identified as one of the top schools in Qld in our field, with Literacy and Numeracy being the first of our three core values. Once a student is known to require support, he or she receives it, whether the school is funded for it or not. Remember the students I mentioned above, identified through Naplan as requiring support? Once they leave Learning Support classes, the staff still look out for them in mainstream wherever we can.

    @hobartchic is correct when she infers that no amount of money in the school system can save a child from poor parenting. I witness this every day with a few students across every grade. Everything we try to do to improve their son or daughter's outcomes is 100% undermined by Mum and Grandma.

    @Noobieboy is also correct. I have built a great relationship with some boys that I know would be vandalising cars and breaking into private homes if the Principle exercised his right to permanently exclude them from school. They are post-school legal leaving age and they are not exactly wanted there, but School is the only stability in their otherwise turbulent and traumatic lives.

    I know that one is not meant to add any new material in the conclusion, but all this reminds us why the Commonwealth Government has promised funding for School Chaplaincy.

    Have a great day, everyone. Please write to your local Members of Parliament about improving the working conditions of Teachers Aides in your communities.
     
  6. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    Heard of busses? Letting kids walk to school?
     
  7. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    Look I agree in principal with these comments in the majority of cases, but there really are some families where no amount of money will fix the deep - seated issues these children are surrounded with.

    We could open a conversation about putting more money into adoption of little babies rather than spending on IVF for childless couples.
     
  8. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

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    I have a 5 year old in K1

    Its beyond me why school cant start at 9am With teachers on playground duty from 8.30 so parents have a chance.

    Ooh i know why because in my schools I see teachers walking through the gates at 9am at best . My wife and i see this every day.
    So this would mean an early start and having to do an 8 hour day.
     
  9. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

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    8am -4pm would be a great start.

    Most caretakers employers will accept staff finishing early.
    But very few will accept a 10am start with a 2 pm finish. Its the number 1 issues for mums and some dads at our school.
    Number 1 bar none.
     
  10. Duck1234

    Duck1234 Well-Known Member

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    Lol society is going backwards, gone are the ways where one income is sufficient.

    8 to 4 would be a pretty long day for the staff....given how much they are paid
     
  11. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

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    Teachers paid much better than you think. The notion they dont is aboultely unfounded.


    Fresh out of university Bang $69,000 ! 12 week holidays In school by 9am out by 4

    Paid no worse than a nurse who only gets 4 weeks holiday not 12 arguably harder job
    Paid no worse than a police in similar experience roll who only gets 4 weeks holiday not 12 arguably harder job
    Paid much better than a early childhood educator who only gets 4 weeks holiday not 12

    Paid no worse than HR staff at my previous employer who only gets 4 weeks holiday not 12 have to be at work 8.20am and left after 5 pm.


    In the public primary school where my kids are at,
    Parents need to come in to do home readers. (teachers dont have time)

    Parents need to come in to teach ethics. (other option is religion)




    Teachers pay NSW.jpg
     
  12. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised by that - the public school my kids go to has classes starting 9am, with teachers on playground duty from 8.25am. And school finises at 2.55. Ish.

    Why would the teachers walk through the gate earlier than necessary?

    Cheers,
    Inertia
     
  13. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    <snip comparisons with other jobs>

    How many teachers do you know? I'm yet to meet a teacher that only works "9am out by 4", and that doesn't also work during much of the school holidays.

    I don't see that as a problem - I volunteer in the classroom and thoroughly enjoy it. I'm able to make a contribution that facilitates the kids learning. Private schools still accept parent volunteer classroom help too. Quite frankly the teacher probably doesnt need it (at my school anyway), but it is a way to be involved and make a contribution.

    That is a bit of a different issue. I also teach Primary Ethics at my kids' school. Having the course run by an external organisation is a good thing in my opinion - it changes the dynamic in the classroom and works well for the content being delivered, and for what is expected of the kids. I think having one of the school's teachers deliver the content would have a different result.

    Also it is offered as an alternative to SRE - the kids not doing SRE are not allowed to be taught the normal curriculum as it is deemed to put the SRE kids at a disadvantage.

    Cheers,
    Inertia.
     
  14. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    You have experience with more than one school?

    Are you certain that the adults you see arriving at 9 am are teachers and not Aides? Other parents? Casual Teachers called up last minute to replace absentee staff? Does the same person come in at this time every day or only occasionally? How do you know if these same people may have to take public transport or ride-share so stay back much later in the afternoon? Do you see the box of work they take home with them most afternoons to complete at night?
     
    Last edited: 25th Sep, 2018
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  15. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

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    I recognise at least 3 of the teachers as they re the 3 K class teachers.
    Further we got a newsletter to advise parents
    1st Make sure not to drop kids prior to 9am (send instead to YMCA pre school care)
    2nd get off school grounds by 3.30pm


    PS just for a bit of fun.

    2 teachers that our friends were at the snow last school holidays for a week.

    Always a joke with our group of friends.

    Awesome that doesn't count towards the 4 week the rest of us get.

    @Angel

    I respect your opinion. But my opinion is formed over many many years. We have at least 5 teachers in our circle of friends. We have frank conversations.

    I work 5.5 days per week and would be lucky to have 3 weeks per year off. Our teacher friends are working a lot less than that. This is across public and catholic school sector.


    Tell a nurse after working a 10 hour shift how she feel if she had a 2 week paid holiday every 2.5 months.

    Teachers have it made in my opinion and opinion of teachers I know.
     
  16. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

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    We were told if not volunteers to teach Ethics kids would sit and do nothing for that class.
    So choice Religion> Sit do nothing>Parents volunteering to teach Ethics

    Many parents felt it was unfair and feel they need to teach ethics so their kids don't waist a lesson.

    Why the hell do we have religion taught at our school instead of doing/sport/science/English.



    We are a Secular country.
     
  17. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

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    Pretty Certain.

    Also pretty Certain We don't need a Pupil free day every time we come back from 2 week holiday ?

    2 weeks off

    NOT enough

    Next Monday lets not have kids here parents can take another day off work While we come back and do some prep.


    Here is an Idea come back the Friday before and prepare....

    But why.....

    52 Days for Weekends =104 days
    4 Pupil free days
    8 Public holidays

    116 put of 365 are OFF


    That's a day off Every 2 days of work


    We can do much better. To support inequality of Women being main care givers not being able to return to work by improving how the school deal with our kids.


    We can improve the standards of learning by having school open during holidays and teachers their to run them over the breaks. Kids can come in have catch up classes or learn extra courses over breaks..


    We already have the resources but they are horribly horrible underutilised.
     
  18. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    I tried cutting and pasting the details about Qld Teachers' salaries up here onto PC, but our QLD Govt website (that i had to log into as an employee) is so draconian that it wouldn't paste in any readable fashion. So I didn't paste it.

    Believe me, we are paid far less than NSW teachers get paid. I get 25/40, less, being paid a maximum allowable income of 25 hours per week. Heaven forbid your taxes be wasted employing someone for earlier than 9 am or post 3 pm.

    #nofngidea
     
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  19. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    Poor @Illusivedreams. Maybe you can find a better school near you - one that operates traditional opening times so you wont have to spend any $$ on outside school hours care like every other working parent does. Get real!

    Teachers didn't go to uni to become baby sitters.
     
    Last edited: 25th Sep, 2018
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  20. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    ....UKI nth nsw ....