What's needed for creating dual occupancy property in NSW?

Discussion in 'Development' started by [d4rk-fr3d], 30th Jul, 2019.

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  1. [d4rk-fr3d]

    [d4rk-fr3d] Well-Known Member

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    People,

    I'd like to know, what type of permit do I need to acquire to be able to subdivide my lot of land into dual occupancy?

    It is located in Bayside NSW municipality.

    I read somewhere that the minimum block size required is 450 sq M for each property, hence I will need a minimum land size of 900 sq M.

    https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/~/m...e-medium-density-design-guide-2018-04-05.ashx

    https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/inforce/569bca93-d791-4d6e-9771-7bf407202bfa/2011-621.pdf

    What else to consider apart from the DA permit from the above PDF?
    Separate electricity, phone/NBN and water meter,...
     
  2. Gavin Ng

    Gavin Ng Well-Known Member

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    Hi Fred,

    Do you want to:

    1. Subdivide the land?
    2. Build a dual occupancy
    3. Or building a dual occupancy and subdivide the land?

    For now your only option is to get approval via a DA, in certain councils, Low Rise Medium Density will kick in so it may be possible to do a dual occupancy via a CDC (Complying development certificate). Bayside has deferred till 31 October 2019.

    Biggest consideration will be stormwater and any other affectations applicable to the land - flooding, bushfire, or in Bayside, ANEF aircraft noise acoustic treatments.

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: 30th Jul, 2019
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  3. [d4rk-fr3d]

    [d4rk-fr3d] Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Gavin Ng ,

    Thanks for the reply, yes, I'd like to subdivide my current land to be able to rent out the existing granny flat as separate property from my PPoR, which according to https://landchecker.com.au

    PLANNING ZONES R2
    PLANNING LAYERS

    Minimum lot size: 450 m²
    Maximum building height: 8.5 m
    Floor space ratio: 0.5​
    So each of the property can still have land size of 450 sqM+
     
  4. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    A GF cant be subdivided as such. A GF exists on a title with another (main) property and CANNOT be subdivided. You are confusing a DA for a granny flat and a subdivision of land with two titles.

    GFs are an approval concession under a DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION TO COUNCIL that permits a second dwelling (often not joined) on one title. A subdivision is made under state law with council approval to allow a dwelling on each title which is a split from one larger title.

    Your council can advise on minimum requirements, condition and rules for the relevant title. ie area, setback, frontages, splays etc
     
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  5. [d4rk-fr3d]

    [d4rk-fr3d] Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Paul@PFI , Sorry for the confusion.

    There is already an existing GF structure at the back of the yard in which I need to separately divide to allow the renter to rent it privately rather than entering my backyard.

    I assume I will need to apply for subdivision of land with two titles. As per your suggestion to be able to obtain:

    1A Street Name - Official address nationally
    Separate NBN, Water and Electricity lines.

    Would that be correct assumption?
     
  6. Shahin_Afarin

    Shahin_Afarin Residential and Commercial Broker Business Member

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    You dont need to subdivide the land in order to have seperate meters - if the GF is CDC or DA approved then council will have records of this and you can have seperate bins, etc (at your cost).

    You the developer will also be responsible for connection of seperate Electricity and Water meters.

    So is the GF approved?
     
  7. [d4rk-fr3d]

    [d4rk-fr3d] Well-Known Member

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    That's a very good question.

    The building is already existing when I bought the property long time ago.
    It is also shown on the Contract as well as the 5x4m double brick building.
     
  8. Shahin_Afarin

    Shahin_Afarin Residential and Commercial Broker Business Member

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    Ok in going to guess that the structure isn't approved but nevertheless first step is to check out if its legal. If it is then look at setting up the connections.

    If its not then you need to see if you are able to get an approval for an established dwelling. There may be some changes required to make it legal.

    Either way I strongly suggest you get the GF legal - this will come up when you sell the property. When clients buy a GF the first question I ask is "does the GF have approval". A half decent solicitor or conveyancer will ask the same question.

    Then there is an issue of insurance so just because these things aren't an issue today doesn't mean they won't be an issue tomorrow.

    Get it sorted now while you have time.
     
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  9. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    This!

    You don't need a subdivision to be able to rent out a granny flat. You don't even need separate electricity and water meters, although it is better if you do.

    You DO need a subdivision if you wish to sell it separately to the main house, however in most cases, you won't be allowed to do this.
     
  10. [d4rk-fr3d]

    [d4rk-fr3d] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion @Shahin_Afarin, as per the Certificate of Compliance from Rockdale Council dated back in the year 1937, I can see the Town Clerk has signed and mentioned officially it does not need to be remedied.
     
  11. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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    @Brazen may be able to help you get approval for your GrannyFlat if it isn't currently legal, shoot him a message.

    As above, you don't need to subdivide a GrannyFlat to rent it out separately.

    If you have an un-approved GrannyFlat on a parcel of land in Sydney, I wouldn't get it approved, you have the ability to subdivide.

    Once you get the GrannyFlat approved (If it can), it is attached to the main dwelling, and CANCELS any chance of you subdividing the block without knocking the GF down.

    I would lean towards subdividing if the opportunity is there.
     
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  12. [d4rk-fr3d]

    [d4rk-fr3d] Well-Known Member

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    @skater Yes, that is make sense, just for the sake of renting the Granny Flat which is at the back of the property with separate utility meter and separate access, I do not need to apply for the Subdivision.

    So if I wanted to build a house after extending the Granny Flat, I assume I will need it.

    Can I apply for the Subdivision letter now than later, suppose I wanted to rebuild the property in the next 5-7 years? in case the council decided to increase the DA price, I can save it by paying it this year.
     
  13. [d4rk-fr3d]

    [d4rk-fr3d] Well-Known Member

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  14. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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  15. Shahin_Afarin

    Shahin_Afarin Residential and Commercial Broker Business Member

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    I recently had a client purchase something similar in Vaucluse - it looked ok as the council had approved the construction but it wasn't specifically approved for a secondary dwelling (if that makes sense).

    I think for insurance, resale, etc purposes you will need it approved. Goes back to my point about getting a retrospective approval. If you don't have fire rating requirements and the Section 10.7 Cert is clean then this should be very straight forward.
     
  16. Gavin Ng

    Gavin Ng Well-Known Member

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    If the secondary dwelling doesn't have approval, and you want to make it legit, you'll need a building certificate for any unauthorised works and a DA for the use of the studio as a secondary dwelling.

    Big deal breakers to look out for from a BCA perspective is the floor area (Usually needs to be less than 60m2), windows within 900mm of the boundary, or insufficient separation between granny flat and the main dwelling. If it's attached to the main dwelling, you'll need 60/60/60 fire rated wall.
     
  17. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    Many older GFs have the issue of being literally where granny can live or the teenage kids etc. Not so much as under a lease but under a different roof to that of the rest of the family in the main dwelling. Shahins observation is quite correct and should be considered to be different to two permitted dwellings that can each be leased.

    This issue is common in Brisbane City Council as an example. And many older areas of Sydney. Where a lease cannot be permitted other than to the same occupants as the main dwelling.

    If you have concerns about raising this with council a local town planner may be able to advise on the issue and recommend a solution. They will be quite familiar with the matter
     
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