What hold does Russia have over Trump?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Lizzie, 17th Jul, 2018.

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  1. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Anything new..... impeachment in the horizon....are we approaching 2 years now???
     
  2. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Patience Grasshopper - the probe that found absolutely nothing on Hillary took longer. Mueller's already been sidetracked on several occasions with dozens on indictments and several convictions. And - as we found with the Kavanaugh sham - to do a proper investigation takes time

    As for when - he will be releasing to Rodstein after the mid-terms as is not permitted to do so beforehand. Rodstein has already saidd that there is evidence of is widespread meddling but he is under no obligation to release the findings to anyone in government or to make them public ... but not to do so would smack of guilt.

    Rod Rosenstein says the Russia probe has uncovered a widespread Russian effort to meddle in the 2016 race

    Considering Mueller just spent 50 hours interviewing Cohen - might be a whole new raft of leads to follow
     
  3. turk

    turk Well-Known Member

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  4. Anthony416

    Anthony416 Well-Known Member

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    What hold does Russia have over Trump? - .........nothing............:)
     
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  5. Speede

    Speede Well-Known Member

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    Trump should get on with building the wall now...
     
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  6. Phar Lap

    Phar Lap Well-Known Member

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    Trump will now begin investigating the russian collusion with Democrats efforts to stop Trump winning the election.
    This failed special councel was the "insurance policy" if he did win, but it's not revealed anything other than a false document upon which this investigation was predicated on, the Russian dossier which is total BS.
    Clinton, Muller, Strok, Comey shaking in their boots.
    This is the swamp Big Donny referred to in his inaugural that he would "drain".

    Democrats have nothing to stand on for the next election other than to further attempt to discredit Trump. Unless you call a bunch of mad "socialists" and their agendas as being something worth voting for, Id say they are shot and set to endure another loss.

    Meanwhile, Trump advances his promises of financial recovery, making America great again and stopping the massive inflow if illegal immigration.

    he has stood there for nearly 3 years now taking punch by punch below the belt, firing a few back but continues to never go down for the count.
    Thats a resolve that is frustrating the left causing them to go out of their minds.

    Its very entertaining. I get the feeling that most Americans are sick of the left and just want their freedom from big Govt again.
     
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  7. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    He's been cleared of the collusion allegations. Mueller did find that Russians did hack into Democrat emails (Trump has denied any Russian influence), but found no evidence that Trump was associated with that.

    On obstruction - "The Special Counsel states that 'while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him". So his claim of total exoneration is incorrect.

    Of course, others around him have been charged, and found guilty, of crimes.
     
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  8. turk

    turk Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you can throw in an off topic statement as bolded above, but from memory none of these crimes involved collusion, back on topic this was in Mullers report,

    Quoting directly from Mueller's report - which has not been released publicly - Barr writes: "The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities."
     
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  9. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    Again. Cleared of collusion. I agree.

    He was specifically not exonerated on obstruction allegations.

    Other people were charged and found guilty as a result of the Mueller investigation. That's not off topic. It's the same investigation.
     
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  10. turk

    turk Well-Known Member

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    But not only Trump but all members of the Trump Campaign were cleared of collusion, a point you have avoided.

    New York: Special Counsel Robert Mueller's verdict that there was no collusion between Donald Trump's campaign and Russia has delivered the US President one of the best days of his presidency.
     
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  11. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    Sure.

    I understand that. Just because I didn't explicitly state every word of Barr's letter does not mean that I was ignoring it.

    We can keep going in circles if you want. He was not exonerated on obstruction.

    "The Special Counsel states that 'while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him". But Trump still claims "No Collusion, No Obstruction, Complete and Total EXONERATION. KEEP AMERICA GREAT!".
    (America became great very quickly. His previous tweet said "Make America Great Again").

    Associates were charged with other crimes which were uncovered as a part of the investigation.
     
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  12. Phar Lap

    Phar Lap Well-Known Member

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    So, what is not being exonerated going to do?
    Big fat nothing burger.

    What are they going to do about it? There is no proof of any wrongdoing by Trump.

    Now lets focus on Clinton for awhile. Plenty wrongdoing there but Comey decided to let her off with destroying thousands of emails on her private server. Like Trump said, maybe ask Russia where they went?
     
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  13. turk

    turk Well-Known Member

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    We could but I wont waste my time, 29 pages of,

    What hold does Russia have over Trump?

    Muller has now exonerated Trump of collusion and any evidence that Russia has a hold over Trump seems to be sadly lacking.



     
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  14. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Actually Mueller hasn't - unless you've had special access to the Mueller report that no one other than Barr has had.

    Read Attorney General William Barr’s Summary of the Mueller Report

    Methinks to much is read into Trump's tweet. Perhaps everyone needs to read the summary itself, rather than simply Trump's grandiose tweets - although the summary is barely two pages long once you take out all the riff raff. Mueller has apparently said he has no irrefutable evidence - not that Trump and/or his associates is innocent (my words).

    How about you wait until it is learnt what the full report actually contains - rather than a cobbled together summary from a Trump nominated AG that contains not a single full sentence quote from Mueller.

    As for those around him, and connected to his campaign that have been found guilty ... you've got - Manafort; Cohen; Stone; Kilimnik; Pattern; Gates; Papadopolous; and Flynn

    Not a small number of associates which indicates the central figure may not be as squeaky clean as you all claim.

    But glad the air has been cleared and we can now watch the other 17 State and Federal court cases against Trump regarding money laundering, campaign funds misappropriated and the dozen other serious issues
     
    Last edited: 25th Mar, 2019
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  15. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Clinton was investigated for years - at great expense - and subjected to numerous hours of questioning (something Trump has refused to do) - and nothing was found.

    How about you focus on Kushner and Ivanka using their private emails and public mobile phone apps instead of beating the same worn out and broken drum
     
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  16. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    "Each time he (William Barr) quoted the Mueller report, he cherry picked sentence fragments, and never did include a complete sentence. In other words, he clearly took those fragments out of context. His only reason to chop up Mueller’s words so finely would be to try to alter their meaning."

    Which is why I will hold my opinion until the report is released into unbiased hands ... Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing
     
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  17. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Regarding obstruction (from Barr's short summary):

    "The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other – as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction. Instead, for each of the relevant actions investigated, the report sets out evidence on both sides of the question and leaves unresolved what the Special Counsel views as “difficult issues” of law and fact concerning whether the President's actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction. The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

    The Special Counsel's decision to describe the facts of his obstruction investigation without reaching any legal conclusions leaves it to the Attorney General to determine whether the conduct described in the report constitutes a crime.

    Generally speaking, to obtain and sustain an obstruction conviction, the government would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person, acting with corrupt intent, engaged in obstructive conduct with a sufficient nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding"

    Interestingly - the summary is barely two pages once one takes out the list of receivers and Barr's personal comments regarding the actions of the AG. Wonder what Mueller's other thousand-odd pages of information contains
     
    Last edited: 25th Mar, 2019
  18. Anthony416

    Anthony416 Well-Known Member

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    I think there is too much focus on exonerated or not exonerated. Maybe lets go back to basics in criminal law, guilty or innocent (which is where the next stage would have lead to). Are those found innocent usually called "could not be proven you were guilty" or is it simply "innocent"?
     
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  19. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    Don’t like Trump. But think there is too much of he said , she said scenarios. He is either guilty or not. Seems to be it’s the later. Just because the report narrative doesn’t fit our dislike (or like) of the person doesn’t change the fact that he seems to be clear.
     
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  20. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    That was my initial thought too - innocent until proven guilty.

    Doesn't mean is actually innocent - simply means there is not irrefutable evidence
     
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