What does our (Property chat) community REALLY stand for ?

I think it is best to ignore the news and try to limit the negative effects our actions have on the environment.

 

From memory you are a man of science Rolf, having worked in a scientific field in a former life?

I am a scientist myself. I don't want to fan any flames on the topic of climate change but I do think it is a real shame about the widespread lack of understanding about how the scientific method, testing hypotheses etc work.

It is one thing to have strong opinions. As the old saying goes "...everyone has one". It is another thing entirely to completely discount the mammoth body of global scietific literature overseen by the IPCC. Thousands upon thousands of hours of research undertaken in higher learning institutions by the world best and brightest, vigorously challenged by their contemporaries, only published after a length period of review and refinement.

Disregarding this can only be done through complete ignorance, seeking data that provides confirmation bias or outright acts of self-serving deception.

And then I remember that 85% of the world believe in religious mythology that has come about in the last few thousand years - a millisecond in the scale of time our universe has existed. And that most of these place man on a pedestal at the centre of the universe, and the age of our earth as only a few thousand years old, and list a bunch of outdated rules completely out of place in modern times that people somehow manage to reconcile.

So if the majority of people on this planet can choose to close their minds to what data and probability are saying and instead go on what they want to be so, then I think probably just closing the thread as Simon did is the best course of action!

 

I think there will always be people that think the world is flat and will always argue about. People don’t trust science anymore or anything really so it will always gets heated. Have a look at similar threads on other forums and it ends the same.

 

I have my own opinions, but why make yourself a target?

 

Make tentative - non committal noises - gauge the reaction then either shut up, or chat away to a kindred spirit over a glass of wine or three

 

I said it in the other thread, I love this place because we CAN discuss these things without it breaking down into a name calling and yelling match like pretty much every other discussion place on the internet.

I like that we all are strong willed individuals with our own thoughts and ideas which we can put forward in an assertive yet none aggressive manner for discussion, discussion being a 2+ way street.

Sensitive topic discussion is something we do really well in here. Not sure if it's average member age, life stage, intelligence, investor mindset or anything else, I just know the mix we have seems to be a good mix .

In short I think our community should simply continue to be our community and do what we do .

 

Honestly, for the purpose of shared knowledge. I learned a few things in the other thread, not enough to change my own opinions but enough to go and seek more information, through this we expand as humans, I have someone on this forum to thank for giving me an avenue of possible personal growth.

If it helps others I am happy to make myself a target .

 

For me PC is a place to grow, learn and then give back sometimes to others with regards to growing wealth and investing.

If I wanted to delve deeply into the world of gender equality issues, climate change etc etc I'd just find a forum where the overall consciousness of the community is one which they congregate to discuss/debate etc that subject matter.

To me PC is predominantly just that. Property chat. With some friendly banter along the way.

 

I enjoy reading opinions contrary to my own.

This encourages research and sometimes a change of mind, sometimes not, but always increases knowledge and understanding. Or just being able to accept another’s point of view even though not necessarily agreeing with it. Things are often not simply black or white, true or false, or right or wrong.

It would be a very boring world if everyone agreed on everything.

 

I think this is a good position to take.

Any alarmist positions on the effects of climate change don't really align with property investing discussion in my view. Greta's speech says:

We are part of the problem in her eyes.

How could someone possibly agree that things are so dire, that we need to make immediate and drastic changes and then be prepared to go out, creating new money through lending to buy properties and cheer on price growth (one of the major economic engines of household spending / economic growth)?

If large scale change is needed, it will mean a complete reconfiguration of our economic paradigm.
We will probably have to accept a much lower standard of living.
Perhaps the biggest threat to the environment (locally and globally) is population growth, how would property investors feel about taking action to turn this growth around?

 

I'm such a person. I firmly believe that climate change will be the worst disaster to ever afflict humanity and one of the six worst events for life on earth (that's 3,000,000,000+ years that we're talking about here)!

The IPCC just upgraded it's outlook and even that's a conservative view, as it doesn't include runaway effects that we don't fully understand yet. I think it's important to point out that the vast majority of global warming forecasts have always come in too low, not too high.

But why then should I not invest in real estate? I don't see them as conflicting. I plan to do two sustainable developments in the next decade. If I wasn't doing them, it's reasonably likely that someone else used these properties and did conventional developments instead.
Plus, money gets you influence and let's face it, currently I can influence a small amount of people to do a tiny bit about climate change. If I had much more money, I could get much more action happening.

The future of the planet is much more important to me than my own finances, but that doesn't mean that I should ignore my finances either.

A lower standard of living, yes, but not much lower and only for a limited time. If we spent the money we're currently putting into the military for climate change action instead, that would get us a fair bit of the way already.

 

I'm about to put solar panels on two more of my rentals ... already have them on the others. No benefit to me (asides from tax refund) but I can then sleep at night in behalf of my tenants

 

If you wanna take it up a notch I know a few more rentals who can provide you with an even deeper slumber.

 

But what of all the new class of unemployed, the soldiers, sailors, airforce personnel, the arms manufacturers, the war mongerers, the scrap collectors raiding mine fields, the military surgeons putting people back together, weapons designers, chemical & drug companies etc. There would be mass rioting from a new group of ex-workers.

Can't do that...

 

If we truly wanted to minimise our impact on the environment in Australia it would include a big reduction in the use of resources & land to build the large homes we have (which requires substantial deforestation). Shifting to apartment living would be a large drop in living standards (for most) and not temporary.

Directing all military spending toward better causes is a nice thought exercise, but about as realistic as getting all Australians into apartments

 

Or just smaller houses ... never understood why a family of four require 300sqm+

Granted, we had a big house (5/3/2) when we were a family of 6, but there was still a lot of unused/underused/unnecessary space ... now that we're only 3, we're downsizing to 170sqm and that'll still be way more than "enough"

 

They'll be right. Keep them busy rebuilding places destroyed by earthquakes, hurricanes and tsunamis.

 

What do I really stand for?
Can't stand talking about stuff that I can't help at all.
I am arranging to do some all night volunteering at the worst homeless hostel I know of.

 

Believe it or not the changes aren't that big and the decrease in living standards is not huge. If we act now. Its like braking, the earlier you do it, the less force you need.