Education & Work Weekend penalty rates

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Bayview, 5th Aug, 2015.

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  1. Tim86

    Tim86 Well-Known Member

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    I know what you mean. But if you work it you end up with extra pay. If you don't work it you end up with regular pay. So there is still an advantage to working it when you look at the bottom line.
     
  2. Beelzebub

    Beelzebub Well-Known Member

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    The proposal put forward by the productivity commission is industry specific and is aimed at retail and hospitality workers and not nurses, emergency service workers, construction workers etc.
     
  3. drg86

    drg86 Well-Known Member

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    I had my penalty rates taken away last year due to my local government job being privatised.

    I used to work every Sat/Sun because there was incentive to do so. I loved it, could earn close to the weeks wage in 2 days. I'd work 6 days and have a mon or tue off. I left a full time job with another company to work casual with the local government one as the pay was near double for a lower role! Then the section got privatised.

    Now however I rarely do a Sunday at work as there is no benefit. Even Saturdays I've mostly done a half day. No longer being rewarded for missing time with friends and family, or the risk and stress it can have on a relationship not having a single day off together.

    I do have an understanding from an employers point of view and can see the pressure it puts on finances in a business. I still think there is a place for penalty rates, would even support a reduction in them, but there has to be at least something. The effect it has had on my workplace is they can't get any experienced workers on weekends, just uni kids etc.
     
  4. Foxy Moron

    Foxy Moron Well-Known Member

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    I can see both sides of the coin as regards penalty rates. But there's one giant bugbear I have regarding "entitlements" and thats Holiday Leave Loading. Nothing but an absolutely unjustifiable gouge. You try explaining the this entitlement to any employer from overseas and they just shake their head. Same with payroll tax. If we really were a smart state or a smart country these would have been given the flick decades ago. There's nothing 'fair' about being an employer in this country. I also love how we appoint corrupt union stooges to head up tribunals and have the hide to give them labels such as Fair Work Commissions etc. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    I agree with unions in respect of trying to boost employment where-ever possible, and looking after staff welfare - it makes our whole economy strong - but we need to overhaul all the dumb-ass barriers that get put up to stifle small business owners in this country. If you dont employ you won't even know they exist. End of rant.
     
  5. RPI

    RPI SDA Provider, Town Planner, Former Property Lawyer

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    And that is why our taxes and rates are so high. Councils and governments should not be able to pay such ridiculous penalty rates
     
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  6. drg86

    drg86 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The penalties and allowances are too generous and it is not sustainable. This is exactly what happened to my job, the unions pushed to hold wages high and penalty rates in place. They wouldn't budge, so employer decides our whole department get cut off and privatised. 90 jobs lost like that. Nice work union.
     
  7. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    I have said it before elsewhere, we can't afford to keep paying ridiculous wages for menial tasks (or any other task for that matter). We (Oz) have been losing our manufacturing industries to other countries who have a lower wages cost and lower land values. It is ludicrous to say that someone should be paid more for doing the same job but on a different day. Granted people working long hours can use the justification that they are away from the family etc but casuals or people working part time (or only weekends), that is a life choice.

    The loss of loadings won't come too soon. How long ago did office workers get converted to a TRP? (ie no holiday loading - why should you be paid 17.5% on top of your standard wage to take a holiday?).
     
  8. Jamie_

    Jamie_ Well-Known Member

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    Haven't read everyone elses responses yet re this point, but nurses will not be effected. The changes won't effect public servants.
    For all those saying that people simply won't work the Sunday if they don't get the penalties then chances are they won't work the Saturday either, as there will be someone, somewhere willing to work the Sunday for the reduced-yet still increased rate.
    Pretty simple, if they want to keep their jobs as Wylie stated then they'll do it.
     
  9. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    One of our daughters just came back from London,her mate who could not get a teaching job within Australia even in small rural towns,is working for 8 quid an hour outside London,a Plumber or Trades people over there don't fare much better in money terms,you go over the USA and it's a bad what they earn,only the tips make it up for them,Australia will go the same and I know a few in Brisbane that run food business models and sometimes when you buy a pizza for 5 bucks ,or someone comes in and sit on a five dollar coffee for one hour and a half then just walk out without it would not be any good even opening the doors with the high running costs..
     
  10. Perky29

    Perky29 Well-Known Member

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    My view - anyone who thinks penalty rates should be fully abolished is a *****.
    Working a graveyard shift is the equivalent of jet lag - and I have to go through the "jet lag" around 40 times per year.

    I am a shift worker - I work 12 hour shifts on a 24x7 roster.
    I sometimes work christmas day , boxing day , good friday , easter and other public holidays. Also - a minimum of 450 hours that are weekend time.
    For that I get a shift loading which is worth the effort - even if it is taking years off my life.

    If I had no shift loading, then I would have no incentive to work these ungodly hours.... so I simply wouldn't do it.
    David
     
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  11. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    It also comes down to capacity of the business to pay. Those sorts of shifts only happen in certain industries eg. mining, aviation etc. There is a capacity to pay. Mum & dad don't own an airline or a coal mine, they don't have billion $ assets - they lease a shop in a Federation/Westfield/Stocklands centre and have to pay staff whether they have customers or not. Given the opportunity, they'd rather be closed.
     
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  12. Mombius Hibachi

    Mombius Hibachi Well-Known Member

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    The funny thing is, that this would give the people that whinge about penalty rates something else to whinge about when the standard of service drops off a cliff after they're removed.
     
  13. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    The areas they are focusing on have changed long ago with operating hours but the pay side hasn't. Shops and businesses are open pretty much 24x7 nowadays compared to the old school Mon-Fri, half day sat, church on sun ideal.
    People will still work the jobs without the penalty rates in the areas they are targeting. There is no clear cut answer but it's a balancing act.
    Night shift is proven to have health affects etc so that can't be touched but weekends and the late night trading roles are the lifestyle choice ones, fit in with uni or semi retired type roles. The hard part is someone getting it over the line, penalty rates and change are not to be messed with!!
     
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  14. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    There's the issue in a nutshell.

    Obviously; the cost of staff for the weekends was not worth the new owners keeping that gig going.

    So, you are left to work only "normal hours".

    The business closes for those two days, and no-one gets to work them at all.

    But, if the new owners decide to open up on Sat &Sun, at normal hours or even say; 1.25 hourly rate, and offer it to anyone who wanted it, then this now gives you the option to say no (which you probably would), and it also gives other folks who cannot find work to suit their life (but weekends do) a chance to do it.

    There are many families (I'm one of them right now despite being a business owner) where the husband can only work 9-5 Mon-Fri, and the wife has to stay home and look after the kids during the day. She can then go off to work in the evenings or on the weekends (as my wife currently does) so they can minimise childcare costs, and she can earn money for the household.

    These are the sorts of folks who - whilst the hourly rate is not as good as it once was - would probably take those shifts because they need the money (and they need a break from the kids too ;):D)

    From an employers' perspective, I agree with it for the above reasons.

    It means the business can be open more hours than it currently is (or might continue to stay open instead of about to close), and provide more opportunities for workers to work. Naturally, the business will hopefully make a profit on that day, but the alternative was higher staff costs and no/little profit, so they were closed.

    So to be open is not guaranteeing a massive spike in profit for those days - just a profit - which makes it worthwhile being open. Everyone wins - the Employer, the worker who wants the work, and the customer.

    Business owners don't enjoy working every day I can guarantee you. I certainly don't; I already work 50+ hours per week Mon-Fri, so would I want to be there on Sat or Sun?

    Obviously, the current staff won't like this new arrangement, because they don't get the cream pay for the less popular shifts that they have become used to, but there are always plenty of folks who currently cannot get work and need more money in their pocket, and suddenly will find an opportunity.
     
  15. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    The people whom whinge about penalty rates are the Employers (me). We always will.

    I don't believe that the removal of penalty rates will see a decline in service.

    It may happen if the current Staff are forced to work those hours, and are used to the extra money, and now aren't receiving it; so you may see them get the sooks up and walk around grumbling in their beards. They have the choice to leave, or work only normal hours shifts, and they possibly will. But the shifts will then open up to those who want the opportunity, and will be a different attitude Staff.

    My previous industry was in Golf, and it was a given that you worked weekends and Pub Hols, because these were the days when most golf courses had their biggest traffic days. In the earlier days there was no difference in pay from weekday to weekend.

    Over 30 years of being in that industry as an Employer, an employee, and as a golfer who plays at other golf courses/Clubs, I didn't notice any real change in level of service of staff who were behind the counter on those days.

    Now, of course; there are penalty rates, and for many of these facilities it is almost not viable to be open due to staff costs. Yes, there is more traffic, but there always was.

    My mate manages 5 golf facilities now, and he now has to try and juggle weekends and Pub Hols with less staff than he used to run to make it worthwhile to be there.
     
    Last edited: 6th Aug, 2015
  16. Chilliblue

    Chilliblue Well-Known Member

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    Eventually their rights too will eroded.
     
  17. lightbulbmoment

    lightbulbmoment Well-Known Member

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    Any worker who says penalty rates should be abolished has lost there mind. Hey Lets take away penalty rates so the boss can get richer and richer and upgrade his cars and boats every year while we struggle to pay the water bill.
     
  18. Chilliblue

    Chilliblue Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot of employees who choose to work Sundays and the like because of the penalty rates and these types of workers simply will not continue to do so without the monetary benefit. These are not people who necessary need to work but choose to do at their discretion.

    Eventually the business owner will need to either pay more money for staff to work those periods or not open.
     
  19. Hodor

    Hodor Well-Known Member

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    Clearly some people have not worked night shifts. People deserve compensation for doing something so unnatural.
     
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  20. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Night shift falls into it's own category.can't see that being changed, but in hospitality and retail there isn't a lot compared to the weekend rates issue
     

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