We need to talk wages

As per @inertia above, IT wages ave been declining unless you are maybe talking about contracting which is a different story altogether.

Care to share what IT jobs produce 150-200K a year if you don't mind ? Solutions Architect or the likes maybe?

 

true... but programming, like any other abstract thinking process, cannot be automated by definition. 'Thinking' is non-algorithmic process. And many businesses prefer to work with local programmers as they often need to deal with business owners / users. So good programmers can get top rates and businesses often pay much higher than industry trends to retain such people

 

You make a very valid point regarding remuneration not being just about a pay packet.

Flexibility HAS to come with a price tag and we are now more than ever entering a stage where its an expectation rather than a privilege....

I also know I could earn more but I have an amazing work/life balance and put tremendous value on that and almost everyone I speak to does as well.
So when we talk about stagnate wage growth then we have to consider what the trade-off especially now more than ever is/has been.

Let me pose a question to the PC community.
Given an opportunity would you prefer:

1. A job that pays 10k more but is very strict with start/end times and must work from the office.
2. A job that pays 10k less but is very flexible with start/end time (just do your hours) and allows 1 day from week working from home (My employer and a lot of others i know, now make this readily available).

I would actually argue 10k is cheap for that luxury.

 

no, I was talking about salaries. There are also super, bonuses, shares, allowance, future redundancy, service leave, etc. I exclude that.

Any senior positions with top skills in mobile app development, BI, C#, full-stack dev, security, etc can get that rate. Yes, they can often pay only 130-150K at start, but salary is growing if you stay and valuable for your company. There is no sense to pay top rates to people who haven't demonstrated their skills yet or to people who can be easily replaceable. Check also the latest Robert Half salary guide report ('95th' column). And if you're a good programmer, no one can stop you to create your own IT products (as second 'job') and sell them worldwide. In this case the income is not limited at all. The problem is that most people are lazy OR don't want too much... they can buy some property, food, car,have a few travels per year... you don't need to earn 200K+ to get that... so motivation is decreasing once you get basic things.

 

Looks like it’s a 3% gain for minimum wage this time round (21.90 a week). Business will likely say it’s going to send them broke, people on minimum will likely complain about some expenses that have gone up more than $20 a week. Nothing to see here imo.

 

Find it hell funny how payg employees who 'Only ' get a say 2% pay rise behave like their employers are ripping them off or theyre in financial dire straights

The sense of entitlement in this country is astounding

I'm thank full that I have a job, and can take as many breaks as I wish

 

My husband is in construction and only worked a couple of days since Christmas. We’re currently living off accumulated leave which is soon to run out. (Along with around thirty other employees). Wages are set to go down as quotes are lower to win work. There is no-one looking for employees. I really don’t get why the government isn’t doing more to stimulate the economy.

 

I don't think the wages problem is about entitlement (well for most people anyways).

It's a sign that something is up.

It's unusual that wages have been this stagnant for this long.

 

I know people that get cpiplus increases every year regardless of how good the company is doing.
I know people that get below cpi payrises every year
Some are grateful of the bonuses, some always complain, some are just happy to be employed

 

Sense of entitlement is eroding don’t worry about that. Just look at 7/11 employees after the crackdown that got them minimum wage, many examples of employees receiving minimum wage then paying back the employer with cash to bring the wage back down. I think we could drop our minimum by half and still be able to attract immigration to work these jobs.

 

I havent had pay rise for 3 years but I am content with that better than having no job

 

I think globilization and automation are causing a lot of margin tightening worldwide. Many industries you are no longer competing just against local companies and workers.

 

Completely agree, in a similar position and I’d choose option 2 (and have done) any day of the week. I however understand not everyone has that luxury unfortunately.

If I jumped ship I would potentially be in for another $20k - $30k a year. However the extra work i would need to put in, would completely take away from the time I spend educating myself, self improvement, podcasts, reading, and also being able to renovate and add value to properties which actually far outweighs it.

 

I see you are quite young. I agree with you, @Codie, that your investments will grow long term, therefore by setting yourself up at this time, you will be far better off in the long run. Well, that is the theory anyway. best wishes

 

You sound like a smart feller. I made much the same choice in my career when I saw my dep heads earning only 20% more but doing twice as much work. Side hustling using my work skills paid off significantly more for far less hours.

Anyway, good luck to you!

 

Thomas Piketty’s capital in the 21st century book has some good insight and data in relation to what’s going on with income growth and how it fits into a global and historical context.


Basic summary of the problem as it relates to Australia (but it’s a global problem of capitalist economies) in two charts.

We have a build-up of wealth invested in productive capacity as shown by the capital -labour ratio.​

Which has been invested in labour substitution or automation so that the majority of labour productivity gains have flown to capital rather than to labour. With the wage index falling far short of the hourly productivity index.


Lucky we are all capitalist’s here on property chat.

 

Keep in mind the real issue is that Australia is becoming quite uncompetitive globally.

Im on a FB group here in the USA for Aussies....you should hear them talk about how expensive everything is when they go home to Australia for holidays and they love coming back to Texas and Florida where quality of life is so good as things are much cheaper here due to wages and goods and restaurants/food being way way cheaper.

Australia needs more #Tier2Cities and we need them now.

Until its just as cool to live in Nowra, Orange, Port Macquarie as it is Sydney, housing=expensive.

 

definitely need more #Tier2Cities.

What do the locals in Texas and Florida think about the cost of living there? Surely if wages are lower as well it means the cost of living is still high?

Cheers,
Inertia

 

I work for the big4 bank and I can confirm not everyone get a pay increase every year too.

 

How is it decided who gets a raise and who doesn’t?