Water Charges - Do you pass them on to your tenants?

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by sliderc, 2nd Feb, 2019.

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  1. SoroSoro

    SoroSoro Well-Known Member

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    Good question. My understanding is that the landlord should have talked to me about what "excess/excessive" meant. That conversation has not happened as I assume they think they are going to bill me for all water usage. Perhaps they won't.

    From here: Water charging fact sheet | Residential Tenancies Authority

    From here: Water charging | Residential Tenancies Authority

    I missed the second page last time I looked. They can't pass on the full charge, but I guess the PM will have to argue for what is reasonable. I would argue that this conversation should have happened at the signing of the lease. If we can't agree, there is a dispute resolution service.

    I swear there was something about the water efficient devices having to be installed for the entire billing period, but now I can't find it. If they install a water efficient toilet tomorrow, it looks like they could charge me all usage from tomorrow.
     
  2. Tom Rivera

    Tom Rivera Property Manager Business Member

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    I think you misunderstood me- there is still a separate meter, but not one that the utilities provider reads, leaving the onus on the Lessor and/or their representatives to do so.

    Excess water usage has always been hazy- no one has ever defined exactly how much water should be allowed and we are expected to vary the allowance based on the amount of people and characteristics of the house (e.g. landscaped gardens, pool, tank water, etc?). It SHOULD be outlined in the lease, but seeing as yours seems to be wrong, it's not there. I don't think that means they can't charge any water at all, but you could make an argument that it was unclear in negotiations.

    As a general guideline we used to use about 10kL per person, but in hindsight that was probably a bit tight- average usage for SEQ is about 15kL per person per quarter. (We charge full usage on everything now- much easier).

    Full water usage can be charged from when the house is made water efficient, usually proven with a WELS certificate, which is a no brainer to provide while the plumber is there changing over fittings. It's perfectly fine to be mid-billing-cycle as long as they take a water reading on the day it's made efficient, otherwise it's impossible to tell exactly how much of that bill to pro-rata.
     
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  3. ChrisDim

    ChrisDim Well-Known Member

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    Oh OK. Makes sense Tom.
     
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  4. MyPropertyPro

    MyPropertyPro REBAA Buyer's Agents Sutherland Shire & Surrounds Business Member

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    I hope you take this in the spirit it is written, I'm not trying to have a crack at you. There is a lot of "arguing" in that paragraph. If they try to charge the full water and it is not compliant, then point that out and engage with them to rectify it. If it is "excess water" or whatever your preferred term, then be reasonable in coming up with a reasonable amount.

    I sense an underlying hint of a desire to "catch out" the PM/owner (eg. Tell them to pound sand). As personally satisfying as that may be, it probably doesn't assist in developing a good long term relationship if that is what you are after. You didn't quite have this right in terms of your understanding of it. I think it is great you are engaged and contributing as a tenant to the discussion, but if you are going to nail your colours to the mast with your PM you better be certain you know what you are talking about.

    Whilst I agree as you said that you should know your rights as a tenant, you should equally know your responsibilities. You signed a contract knowing that you were required to pay for water. Putting technicalities, legislation, who should have done what and when aside, that should be the starting point. This issue can be sorted with minimal fuss and conflict and you can move on.

    - Luke
     
  5. Rowan

    Rowan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys.

    I have a flow meter and It turns out that 2 separate bills will mean 2 Sydney Water service charges.

    Turns out standard practice is to have an agent deduct the water usage from granny flat from the main bill and charge to granny flat tenant separately. This is what I've asked my property manager to do.
     
  6. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    Who told you that?
    I have two Sydney water meters and they appear on the same bill.
    No extra charges, but Sydney water show the usage on each meter.
     
  7. Rowan

    Rowan Well-Known Member

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    Sydney Water told me that you can have 2 usages on the same bill if both water meters are in the same location (not flow meters). Since I have one at the house and one flow meter at the granny flat, that is potentially 2 service charges.
     
    Last edited: 21st Feb, 2019
  8. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh i see. Its the way you set it up.

    Mine have been setup next to each other. The main water pipe runs in from the street, and from there it splits into two meters, one going to the house, one going to the granny flat, the reason for this was so that I can turn off the water to each place independently. Cost a little more in copper piping - nothing extra in trenching as they were already trenching the side of the house for storm water anyway.

    From the sounds of it, if the main house needs their water shut off, the granny flat also has their water shut off too, and also if the main house using the water, the granny flat water also decreases slightly. My guess is that the builder tee'd off the nearest water point from the existing house.
     
  9. ChrisDim

    ChrisDim Well-Known Member

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    Hi Rowan, I don't think its a good idea to do that what you are suggesting. Hopefully your PM will tell you just that, but in NSW we are not allowed to try and work out the tenant usage by using the flow meter reading of granny flats. We can ONLY charge the tenant if the granny flat has its own separate Sydney Water meter and your granny flat passes the water efficiency measures (9L per minute fo showerheads etc). I'd be very surprised if your PM does along with that, but if they do, I am happy to share some info that you can send to them.
     
  10. SoroSoro

    SoroSoro Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Luke - you would be correct. I'm unhappy with a decision made by the landlord as they've told me they plan on tearing the place down in a few years and want to invest as little as possible. Maybe my expectations are too high, but if a house has a spot for a dishwasher, there should be a hookup for a dishwasher. I was told as the house was rented without a dishwasher (I brought my own), I would have to pay for the hookup myself. And I did.

    I'm also on a short term lease and will be leaving soon, so the relationship with the landlord isn't overly important. That said, I don't plan on being unreasonable, but I will argue for what I think is fair. You rightly point out that my initial interpretation was incorrect, and the overall "savings" will be much less than I initially thought.
     
  11. KateSydney

    KateSydney Well-Known Member

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    I've always paid the water for both my Victorian IPs. Didn't know any different. But I do like the gardens, such as they are, to be kept alive and so I think I have a better chance of that happening by paying for it. Now I'm wondering why my REA didn't think to ask me what I wanted to do - but I guess it was up to me to consider.
     
  12. sliderc

    sliderc Active Member

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    So I finally got around to getting Water Compliance on my QLD properties and I wasnt aware of this however the Tenant only pays the Water Consumption - Residential and Bulk Water Consumption costs (should have read further into D.Ts tip "the tenant only pays the usage portion").

    So this for one property equated to:
    • Water Fixed Access Charge: $67 landlord pays
    • Wastewater (Sewerage) Fixed Access Charge: $172.25 landlord pays
    • Water Consumption - Residential : $17 tenant pays
    • Bulk Water Consumption: $83 tenant pays
    Total: $340 (Tenant pays $100)...

    Shame, I jumped assuming my costs would be returned within 3-6 months (2 qtrs), turns out it will be more like 12-15 months (4-5 qtrs)...still worth it in the long run.
     
  13. Synergy

    Synergy Well-Known Member

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    Does the PM forward the council bill (as proof) to tenants highlighting that they need to pay water consump and bulk water consump? (for qld)
     
  14. Tom Rivera

    Tom Rivera Property Manager Business Member

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    Generally just the billing page attached to our invoice to substantiate the cost.
     
  15. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    Youd be insane not to pass charges onto the tenant,
    As long a you are legally allowed and as long your rent isnt a "all bills included" type of arrangement
     
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  16. Blueskies

    Blueskies Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I pass it on. I can't think of any other business that says go for broke using "x" resource and we will pick up the tab.

    I'm surprised the recent QLD rental reforms haven't outlawed the practice of recharging for water, and mandated that landlords install inline filtration, chilling and carbonation at the tennants request.
     
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