Wages in IT

Discussion in 'Investor Psychology & Mindset' started by Sackie, 16th Feb, 2018.

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  1. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    @Gockie I used a mixture of abstract / virtual functions and generic types to build a download system that could be adapted to other problems via inheritance.

    I was showing off, but also figured it'd save time in future as most coding challenges have the same format.

    Though, as my father pointed out, they're turning down people who don't meet their standards without explaining what they're looking for!

    Something that I've seen a few times in my career (and not necessarily about me) is that developers with less grasp of a language will consider code that uses more advanced features to be worse.

    As for the job, it's not the end of the world, but it's annoying to waste several days (unpaid) on a test.
     
  2. gman65

    gman65 Well-Known Member

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    ****** feedback from them..

    When reviewing a code test I've always gone out of my way to spend a bit of time explaining where there are deficienies. In a way that helps the rep of your company in the long run. But then again many people in IT have really crappy communication skills and have trouble articulating things.

    If they can't articulate back towards the dev in even a code test, then really you have ask why you'd want to work with them anyway.

    Some companies seem to pride themselves on being mindless codefactories. They don't give a **** if you can create a better solution as long as you can slap any old thing together in a short anount of time..
     
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  3. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @gman65.

    I'd have welcomed feedback. We all screw up when coding from time-to-time.

    Similarly, provided someone isn't being completely stupid, you can probably coach them to fit into a set of coding standards. I'm sure that I've got bad habits myself.

    For example, my agent sent me someone else's solution for the test I completed, and he'd declared a whole bunch of variables with package scope in Java, when they should have been private. (I see this quite a bit.) I could have gently explained encapsulation to him, and suggested he change things. Over time, he'd hopefully get better at it.

    I agree that there are a lot of communication problems in IT, which combined with programmer egos (everyone thinks that they're great), or the occasional bigmouth who the management thinks are way better than they are in reality, makes it hard to have a civilised discussion.

    I've done three coding tests recently. Each takes a few days of (unpaid) work, and so far:
    • The test I've already mentioned came back as a no.
    • I'm awaiting feedback on one I submitted about a week and a half ago.
    • I got a positive response from a third, then the scheduled second round interview didn't occur, and the job disappeared.
    Another example from a contractor I met in Sydney last year was he spent a week completing one of these exercises for a bank. They were impressed, saying it was far better than anything their team would come up with, only to be later told that the job had gone to an internal candidate.

    Here's the thing, in future I'm likely to use the requirement to do a test of that magnitude as a filter indicating that a company isn't worth working for.
     
  4. Plutus

    Plutus Well-Known Member

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    From the project delivery side of the puzzle it doesn't seem like there is any correlation between the people who get through the tests & get jobs and actually being any good.

    Personally I think they are a waste of time & you can never really tell who actually did them or how much time & resources they put in.

    If it was up to me, tech hiring would be a 60 second glance over their resume to make sure they aren't totally unqualified for the role, gain some easy conversation fodder & check for any companies you may know other people at (to do a reputation check), 15-60 minute conversation x 2-3 people inside the org one on one (basically 3x casual coffee chats). As long as everyone tends to think they are going to be an okay culture fit, no major red flags & won't be a nightmare to work with 38+ hours a week, hire them on probation, pair them with someone relatively senior in whatever technical role it is & you'll know within a week or two if they were ********ting and or are capable of getting up to speed with what the org needs.

    Worst case you end the probation on Friday hopefully with minimal hurt feelings (depends on how you word it & handle the situation) & at least they got a week paid work vs unpaid tests. I'm really suspicious that most hiring processes wouldn't even beat random chance.
     
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  5. Gockie

    Gockie Life is good ☺️ Premium Member

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    And I think... if someone really can't do the work, they'll be found out quick smart or they will leave of their own accord.
     
  6. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    I saw a piece at Medium by the founder of one of those "we're trying to solve recruitment" startups, and she has data showing someone who comes over as technically strong in one interview will underperform in others.

    That would confirm a piece of research I once saw that the recruitment process doesn't produce better outcomes than chance alone!
     
  7. Orion

    Orion Well-Known Member

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    FWIW I've noticed some increase in wages now, in this new Digital / Cloud / AI work we live in.

    Even the big banks have finally realised the massive benefits you can get from hiring top tier IT talent, something that Google, Amazon, Facebook etc have been doing all along.