Wages in IT

Mod edit: Split off from another thread


Re wages I have no idea about wage growth or not. But the younger cohort I know are not waiting for 'wage growth', they are upskilling, being aggressive and just applying for promotions or other jobs that pay better. More and more people are also doing overtime and starting side businesses. I was talking to my 27 year old cousin last week about 'wage growth' and she was laughing in my face and said ' no employer can ever keep me from being paid my true value'. She's had 3 jobs since leaving uni and her pay keeps increasing each time. She also has 6 props. Settling on anther one in GC I think.

 

I'd be curious to hear what line your cousin is in @Leo2413. I'm in IT, and @Orion will confirm that getting payrises in that industry aren't happening.

 

She's in accounting/finance. She was on a decent wage but believed (for the time she spent in the company, qualifications and value she brought) that she should be offered a CFO position or similar salary. Basically her company would have liked to but said it wasn't in the budget. Upon hearing that she applied for all CFO jobs related to her field or salaries similar. She is a CFO now on a salary she feels reflects her value. I guess the new company does too.

 

Thanks @Leo2413.

I think that there's a level in business where you go from being a cost to a talent. Your cousin's lucky (or skilled or persistent) enough to cross it.

 

I think she's just very persistent. She is good at what she does but she herself says she's 'not brilliant'. But still quite good. She's just very persistent with a very positive and proactive mindset.

Whats the issue with IT? Are there too many ppl applying?

 

Basically yes. IT has made up the largest proportion of our 200k new Australian's each year (over one third I believe), and this has been going on for 10+ years.

 

Is that because of how big computers and related tech has gotten over the last decade, so the new generation all want in..? Or are the new Aussies just taking the jobs?

 

I think that immigration plays a role, particularly as the Australian government prioritises IT skills. I shouldn't complain, because that's what got me over here.

Also, a programmer is largely seen as replaceable. A commodity won't have much value.

But the contract rates for my speciality are 30% or more lower in Sydney than London, and living costs in both cities are similar.

 

For a person the rates / salaries are growing, and faster x times faster than inflation... but that growth is mostly related to growing skills and experience.

 

Like real estate there is markets within markets and the same with IT.
There are so many areas of expertise. Generalist IT can find it hard to get raises as there are just so many of new grads coming online every year who will take a job for peanuts to get real time experience.
I got lucky and managed to specialise without having a second degree (or a first ) which led to more money. That specialisation plus customer/people skills allowed more progression.

 

I agree with @Orion and @Graeme, the IT market is flat. DH and I are both IT and had to move to Canberra to get better rates and continuation of service. As contractors, both of us had too many gaps between gigs in Brisbane (moved in 2011). We had lived in Canberra for an 18months stint before that so we had an idea what we were in for.

Both of us are in permanent roles now, we have both had promotions etc and are not ‘dead wood’ types.

 

This is how many people advance their career, and have always done so. Particularly working in the private sector.

Way back in the 1960s and 1970s when working full time, I changed jobs every two or three years as my skills increased, I worked my way as far as I could with that employer, then found better opportunities elsewhere.
Marg

 

@Kassy most jobs in Canberra require security clearance, as they're for the government, and that in turn requires citizenship. That'll make it harder for someone on PR, or even for developers to be brought in on 457s, so there's less competition, and wages probably aren't depressed to the same extent.

I think that @Westminster had the right idea: Get into a more business or management related role. Then you're less of a commodity, and have more visibility with the management of solving problems for the organisation.

As a freelancer, I find that the biggest obstacle in re-skilling is that recruiters all want prior professional experience in a field. @Tenex mentioned a demand for AI and Big Data types, and I don't think that I'd have a problem there as I studied AI and maths at university, albeit some time back. But when I discussed shifting over with an agent, he opined that I'd have to go back to a junior level, and work up again, which really wouldn't be worth it.

 

@Graeme yes, your right about most jobs needing security clearances. Citizenship is only required by some gov departments here, not all and citizenship doesn’t seem to be required by contractors (at least from talking to some of the contractors I have spoken to here).

I changed IT career path here from Server Admin to PM, I did need to take a more junior role but rose through the ranks quickly (I also have qualifications). Glad I did as server admin roles are either outsourced or filled with cheap labour now and not pulling the wages I use to get.

If you want to change IT streams and can afford to take a junior role it may be worth it long term. Just knowing ‘how’ to work in an organisation can give you a leg up over other ‘juniors’ so you may end up not being junior for very long.

 

@Kassy I think that a sideways move into data science or AI might be worthwhile. I'd need to chat with an agent that's got a clue to see if there's a return.

I find it very easy for people to ask me to take a rate cut. It's getting back up again thatst the hard part.

The other risk is that being in my forties, I'm aware of being past my sell by date as a code monkey.

Citizenship shouldn't be an issue for much longer. I think that I can apply for it in March.

 

I went from being a sysadmin to starting at the bottom when I went into geological IT. Thankfully the resource industry paid better than ISPs so I got more money for a more junoir role but it was contract only work so it had contract day rates vs my old permanent job.

About 8 years later I was made redundant and had to go for another junior job and upskill again in a different resources field.

And I did it again after the birth of my second child.

3 times I slightly changed my skill set (application support, software/database development and data specialist). Each time there was an element of sink or swim but all that knowledge came together in the end when I was asked to lead a remediation team to audit and remediated core databases.

And then I gave it all away

I loved the job but I loved being a property developer more and it had a better work-life balance.

 

20 years ago I left an engineering programming job in Sydney to go IT contracting in London banks. Income went up 4x, the good old days. This lasted until the GFC (when I was in Switzerland), after which rates gradually eroded over the years to a point where a full time job was equivalent to contracting.

As far as age goes in IT I've found that in the four countries I've worked Australia and the UK tend to favour younger people but the USA and Switzerland don't, plenty of older IT people.

 

Almost every grad I meet these days thinks they can be a C level exec in 5 years . To actually make CFO at 27 is almost unheard of. Your cousin must be very good at her job and very confident. Good on her.

Agree that wages in IT haven't moved much in years. The majority of my friends are in IT and have said the same thing. I've been a contractor for about 6 years in the same role and my rate hasn't changed the whole time. It's not a bad rate and other companies aren't offering much more and I have heaps of flexibility where I am so it's not worth moving. Would still rather be developing property though

Btw, I did attempt the whole career thing in IT consulting. Got as far as I wanted to get and left because the next level was all about sales targets which just wasn't for me. Pays very well for those who stick with it though.

 

She's the embodiment of persistence and has a vastly superior mindset than most of her competition .

 

This is something I've been toying with over the last 12 months or so. I've been at a career ceiling for a technical non-manager guy (i.e. Senior Cloud/Integration/Solution Architect type) person for the last 10 years and am pushing 40. The flexibility of contracting is good, although I have found I do have to work harder for the same 2009 daily rate these days.

In the future I see managers becoming more technically minded, and believe this is where I need to head towards - although even as a non-manager I've been ground down by trying to mentor/motivate uninterested low-skilled new comers to the industry. If they're keen, it's rewarding (although I'd rather skill up our local industry) but some just don't give a rats and I essentially then end up doing my own job and theirs.

Has any techie type ventured into management - i.e Delivery Lead, Service Delivery Manager, Solution Delivery Manager, Head of xyz, etc? There would initially be a small pay decrease although it's the step that has to be taken to achieve higher salaries and some security in later years.