Visa conditions to push migrants to regions

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by ric.r, 9th Oct, 2018.

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  1. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Good idea, but Wouldn't have the effect of pushing people to regional areas i think.
     
  2. Rowan

    Rowan Well-Known Member

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    And keeping it simple with incentives like what you said is the way to go.

    Fundamentally people move to where their skills are needed. They come to Sydney and Melbourne because their skills are in demand here.

    Why we need to please those who believe Sydney/Melbourne is full, congested, unaffordable is beyond me. They are the people who need to move out to the regional centers. We might find that these people will happier away from Sydney/Melb AND Sydney/Melb will be happier without them.

    In additional, regional centers need to think through what industries they would like to grow and what they want to be known for, then determine what skills are needed and then advocate for that kind of people either domestically or through immigration.
     
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  3. scienceman

    scienceman Well-Known Member

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    Sydney is full, congested, unaffordable etc. No doubt some people are leaving for these reasons, but the lack of jobs in regional areas will always be a limiting factor. PS it is often locals who are driven out while the immigration floodgates see Sydney and Melb grow by about 100K a year. This means families are split up, ie so much for 'Sydney/Melb will be happier without them'.
     
  4. Orion

    Orion Well-Known Member

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    I'd have to respectfully disagree.

    Look at wait staff, kitchen hands, taxi/uber drivers, couriers, food delivery, convenience store, Macca's etc... hardly 'skilled jobs', yet almost exclusively staffed by immigrants from the third world in our major cities. I would suspect most are student visas.

    Not saying this is good or bad, just how our world is at the moment.

    IT (and many other) industry wages have been flat for almost a decade, there was a long post on this a while back. IT has been flooded with low skilled/paid workers which has suppressed wages for many years, anyone in the industry can tell you that.
     
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  5. AlexV_Sydney

    AlexV_Sydney Well-Known Member

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    skilled migrants mostly work as professionals - that's ABS/ATO fact, not opinion. Their partners and other visa holders - maybe... but we discussed specifically skilled migrants.

    and IT wages are not flat. In average yes, but for a person - no, because it grows in line with experience. Average is the same because there is huge number of relatively new migrants - they need time to settle to get good salary. My income (in IT) was increased by 2+ times over last 10 years, it was average. Same for many friends (migrants).
     
  6. scienceman

    scienceman Well-Known Member

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    But research shows most of them are working below their skill level. Also migrants are prepared to work for a lower wage so it undercuts the going rate. And averages are what matter in macro economic terms.
     
  7. Deck

    Deck Well-Known Member

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    if I remember only 25% of "skilled migrants" end up "professional" after 5 years, most are underemployed/overqualified and undercut locals (especially local graduates and young, which has a long lasting impact on their career )
     
  8. AlexV_Sydney

    AlexV_Sydney Well-Known Member

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    I think we already discussed that research and it's limitations. If you isolate primary applicants, they mostly work at their level, and some work for a lower skill, others for higher skill level.

    Average is meaningless in case when the base is growing and when the main source of that growth is new arrivals and graduates.

    It's just math. Imagine you have a suburb with 100 appartments, each apartment is 10 years old, average is 10 years. Now we build 20 new appartments within 1 year. In 1 year after new apartments were built we have 100 12 y.o. appartments and 20 1 y.o. apartments. Average remains the same - about 10 years, but it doesn't mean most apartment didn't become older by 2 years (10%), right? Similar for IT salaries - sector is growing, new people are coming, the average remains the same but wages of experienced IT workers grow significantly. I don't remember that 3-5 years ago we had so many jobs with 150K+ salaries for senior roles as now.
     
  9. scienceman

    scienceman Well-Known Member

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    The new arrivals are not the source of growth but rather a case of more applicants/ competition in a slack labour market. This generally bad for the existing workforce in terms of wages and job opportunities.
     
  10. AlexV_Sydney

    AlexV_Sydney Well-Known Member

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    They are source together with graduates. Otherwise how can number of people working in IT can grow?? Lol Cloning? Robots? Plumbers taking IT jobs?

    The bad thing both for businesses and workforce is to artificially reduce supply. It leads to reduction of skills and higher price for the product - as a result a company can't compete. If there is a shortage (and there is shortage in IT, not sure about other industries), companies should be able to find candidates from overseas, same as we buy lots of international stuff even when we have raw materials to produce it.

    What is better... capitalism or communism is open discussion, but communist countries are not doing well and not long.
     
  11. scienceman

    scienceman Well-Known Member

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    There is no skills shortage In IT or hardy any other field for that matter (I put up a report to that effect earlier). Winding back immigration in an oversupplied field is not 'artificial' either. If companies rely on workers from overseas it is just to under cut wages.
     
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  12. AlexV_Sydney

    AlexV_Sydney Well-Known Member

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    You simply don't know the industry well. IT is not just data entry.
     
  13. scienceman

    scienceman Well-Known Member

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    Well how do I know you know what you are talking about? Can you supply some kind of reference such as this research that shows graduates in general are finding it harder to get jobs, the supply of jobs is not keeping up with the number of graduates and starting wages are falling:

    Mapping Australian higher education 2018 | Grattan Institute
     
  14. AlexV_Sydney

    AlexV_Sydney Well-Known Member

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    If you believe research articles more than actual experience, here is recent report about IT boom: The Australian IT job market is so good at the moment that many don't stay in a role very long
     
  15. KinG3o0o

    KinG3o0o Well-Known Member

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    because all this jobs are not filled by locals.. go asked that kid in highschool holding a $1500 iphone if he or she wanna job in maccas or stacking shelfs in supermarket, many will say no why ? because their parents will give them what they want. this includes ALL races.

    and when it come to proffesionals, i look at uni graduates for cources like midwifes,nurse, doctors, dentist, pharmacy accounting + finance, the major universities in sydney where i am, most of them are asians, australia born and raise. so that might have a factor that most people thing all the migrants take the local jobs when they are local just not white ^.^
     
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  16. scienceman

    scienceman Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not just a perception thing, the government's own figures show that 2/3 of new jobs are going to immigrants.
     
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  17. scienceman

    scienceman Well-Known Member

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    [
    Properly researched article are based on actual experience - but not just your own (you do realise there are things outside your personal experience)? In this case all it shows is turnover is high in the IT industry. Some of the reasons cited are not actually a sign of skills shortages, eg poor career progression (41%) and fear of redundancy (36%). If you want to look at indicators of a skills shortage you should be looking at things like time taken to fill vacancies or wages growth (the article doesn't touch on these).
     
  18. Ben Chifley

    Ben Chifley Well-Known Member

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    Fair Work Australia recently turned over a representative sample of restaurants and cafes and found that nearly all of them were underpaying. My personal experience is that hospitality staff in Melbourne are nearly all backpackers, tourists, international 'students' and Australians who are prepared to work for $12 an hour (or less). Hospitality in particular runs on exploitation of the lowest paid.
     
  19. KinG3o0o

    KinG3o0o Well-Known Member

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    australians forget to question on very important factors, who are the owners of this business.

    i believe (no stats to back it up) most business are still own by australians, and they hire foreign workers to line their own pockets, but the working australians like to blame immigrant because its easier.
    and everyone else fall in line.

    this is exactly how politics works.
     
  20. AlexV_Sydney

    AlexV_Sydney Well-Known Member

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    From original Robert Half report...

    Key facts:
    - avg annual salary increase 8% for talented professionals (21%)
    - 82% CIOs find it more challenging to find qualified IT professional compared to 5 years ago
    - supply of IT graduates is below early-2000s levels
    - 20% growth in number of IT jobs over 4 years

    So the wages are growing fast... but not for all. And this is normal. And such demand can't be fulfilled by local workforce only.